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Post by vballmanchild on Sept 3, 2014 19:05:47 GMT -5
MVC cannot be more thrilled right now. There toughest rival and the club that has been better than them (overall) the last 4-5 years is gone. The rich get richer ... You're assuming that all the former Lightning players will automatically jump to MVC; not sure that will be the case. Pretty sure that this years 17's want to stay together, not sure that they would see any benefit from going to MVC. With Sting bringing on a lot of the former Lightning coaches, I believe you will see most of them end up there.
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Post by vballmanchild on Sept 3, 2014 19:11:50 GMT -5
Well, best of last 4-5 years? At this year's Nats two MVC teams finished in Gold and WAL was shut out. We all know in WI it depends on what age group we are talking about where the talent goes.
Vballman is betting against players going to MVC? Why wouldn't they want to a) get BEST players from around Metro Milwaukee to be on ONE club/team and finish in top five in nearly all age groups and b) MVC's coaching staff is second to none?
I'm biased but the boys market is just too small to host two clubs competing for talent IMO. Girls market is different as every single HS has girls teams and D1 scholarships are waaay more available in college.
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Post by vbsetter2012 on Sept 3, 2014 19:41:54 GMT -5
Yes, MVC had two teams finish in Gold and WAL did not. However, look at overall finish. MVC finished higher in 15's and 18's (both the Gold finishes), with no WAL team in 18's. In 14's, 16's and 17's WAL finished higher. WAL had higher finishes in 3 of 5 age groups.
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Post by vballmanchild on Sept 3, 2014 20:30:07 GMT -5
That's my point. Ridiculous that region talent is split up. Our best 12 in any age group would be competing for Gold.
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Post by vbsetter2012 on Sept 3, 2014 21:39:42 GMT -5
Depends on the age group. For last year, MVC 15's probably had the best group, maybe add one or two bench players. Same would be true for Lightning 16's. Not sure who you would take from MVC 16's and put on that Lightning team. Last year's 17's is probably the group that could take a couple from either team and put on the other to make a really good team.
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Post by wivolleyball on Sept 4, 2014 7:43:13 GMT -5
Just a quick comparison of top 5 finishes between clubs since WA lightning Had boys
Northshore/Milwaukee 2013 2 teams 15&18, 2011 1 team 16s 2007 2 teams 16s and 17s, Total 5 teams , WA Lightning 2013 1 team B13s, 2012 3 teams 14&15&18, 2011 3 teams 13s&14&17 2010 1 team 16s, 2009 2 teams 17&15, 2008 1 B14, 2007 B15 Total 12
12 vs 5 and lightning
Also Lightning has 3 National Championships and Northshore 0
Not sure I would claim the two clubs to be equal
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Post by vballman1234 on Sept 4, 2014 9:47:46 GMT -5
I guess we should just combine the Brewers & Cubs so we have a better shot at winning the World Series. No! Competition is needed in every city, every state. I strongly believe that if there was no Lightning the past 15 years & MVC got everybody, the sport would not have grown as much as it has.
Monopoly = bad
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Post by vballmanchild on Sept 4, 2014 12:08:03 GMT -5
You guys conveniently leave out ALL (NS)MVC history with one National Championship (2000), 4 runner up Silver medals, and 3rds - Bronze medals. I'm not going to foment this discussion but I would also guess that (NS)MVC have placed many more kids into college programs over time.
This isn't about a monopoly. This is about the top talent in Milwaukee region is BETTER than 95% of the country's clubs. Why shouldn't we showcase that in one club? The market is finite. Around 50 schools state wide and probably less than 30 in Greater Metro. Even the girls side really only feeds one elite program (national level) in Sting.
WAL and MVC have had a ton of success for a variety of reasons. What irks me (and has for years) is the conversation that one club is better than another. The point is now (in the vacuum) we can achieve great things for WI Boys volleyball.
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Post by mvolleyfoll on Sept 4, 2014 14:55:16 GMT -5
I am not sure how this applies to this conversation but this is what happened in Virginia Beach with Coastal absorbing Seven Cities and Dominion clubs resulting in 4 Open qualifiers and the highest placing/ranked teams from that area. It improved the coaching, quality of play and overall depth of the clubs allowing the club to compete with the west coast talent at multiple age groups and bring home trophies.
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Post by vballman1234 on Sept 4, 2014 15:40:30 GMT -5
Virginia only has like 5 schools with boys volleyball. Not a good comparison.
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Post by mvolleyfoll on Sept 4, 2014 15:50:51 GMT -5
Wrong on that note Virginia has 77 High Schools more then Wisconsin I believe.
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Post by mvolleyfoll on Sept 4, 2014 16:05:52 GMT -5
According to the VHSL web site there are 67 Schools 4A-6A and 10 Privates schools that play volleyball in Virginia. Wisconsin Sports Net list 56 Teams in Wisconsin.
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Post by priddyboy on Sept 4, 2014 17:03:45 GMT -5
I've watched Lightning matches and I never saw a Lightning coach or player argue with a ref. On the other hand, sometimes their philosophy seemed maybe even too laid back. I've watched North Shore/Milwaukee matches and saw players and coaches argue with refs. Maybe that means they wanted it more or maybe they didn't show as much respect. Don't know. But it's good for players to have options as to what kind of team they want to play for. There are or were pros and cons to both clubs and both clubs had loyal followers. I think that competition between clubs keeps clubs honest in what they charge, the coaches they hire, and how they treat the kids. I would worry if one club had a monopoly on the area's talent.
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Post by priddyboy on Sept 4, 2014 17:03:59 GMT -5
I've watched Lightning matches and I never saw a Lightning coach or player argue with a ref. On the other hand, sometimes their philosophy seemed maybe even too laid back. I've watched North Shore/Milwaukee matches and saw players and coaches argue with refs. Maybe that means they wanted it more or maybe they didn't show as much respect. Don't know. But it's good for players to have options as to what kind of team they want to play for. There are or were pros and cons to both clubs and both clubs had loyal followers. I think that competition between clubs keeps clubs honest in what they charge, the coaches they hire, and how they treat the kids. I would worry if one club had a monopoly on the area's talent.
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Post by rogero1 on Sept 5, 2014 2:45:29 GMT -5
Just saw that SPVB is branching up north & moving into Energy's facility. Any chance any Milwaukee area players make the drive south to them? I knew of one player who drove down south to play with Ultimate awhile back.
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