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Post by netdirector on Sept 21, 2015 12:50:04 GMT -5
Unfortunately, there are coaches that approach and send inappropriate text messages to the ladies they coach. The word doesn't come out about it because in college the girls are over 18. It still amounts to sexual harassment but the coaches just get shifted to new opportunities and teams. Girls should know that a coach sending kiss faces and making comments about meeting them, or touching them inappropriately should not be tolerated and they should be able to report such activity without fear of reprisal. That's not the current climate. An asst coach can make passes at the ladies on the team resulting in the ladies feeling extremely uncomfortable and powerless. Without mentioning names, I just ask coaches to make sure your players know that if they are receiving messages that make them uncomfortable from staff, they should report it. College is one thing... players/students in relationships with coaches/teachers is unfortunately fairly common. But like you said, they're over 18 and the vast majority are consensual. Contrast that with high school players/students, who are either under 18 or just barely over. There are no instances I can think of where that has been tolerated, much less accepted. At least not in this country. Even if not proven criminal, it is socially reprehensible. I'm not suggesting something magical happens the summer between high school graduation and freshman year of college, but I do believe we have additional responsibility to our youth to safeguard them from predators until they're on their own and making their own decisions. And as parents, we are entrusting coaches/teachers with part of that responsibility. That is what Rick Butler took advantage of. He was not looking out for the best interests of those girls. He was not considering what psychological damage he would be causing. And this is why I would never trust him with my daughter, regardless of how much time has passed. It's a personal decision every parent with a child in club athletics has to deal with.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2015 13:43:40 GMT -5
Unfortunately, there are coaches that approach and send inappropriate text messages to the ladies they coach. The word doesn't come out about it because in college the girls are over 18. It still amounts to sexual harassment but the coaches just get shifted to new opportunities and teams. Girls should know that a coach sending kiss faces and making comments about meeting them, or touching them inappropriately should not be tolerated and they should be able to report such activity without fear of reprisal. That's not the current climate. An asst coach can make passes at the ladies on the team resulting in the ladies feeling extremely uncomfortable and powerless. Without mentioning names, I just ask coaches to make sure your players know that if they are receiving messages that make them uncomfortable from staff, they should report it. If you know this is going on perhaps you should mention names.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2015 13:52:41 GMT -5
There simply isnt anything more that could be added to this conversation. I agree, there is little more to add. However, it should not be dropped or ignored as it is a warning to people. The lesson that is learned by the RB story is that parents and children do not just have to worry about the molester BUT they also have to worry about the immense number of adults that will cover up for the molester to keep the organization going. Do not think USA Volleyball will protect your children, nor AAU, nor JVA. They have no qualms about turning a blind eye. THAT IS THE REAL LESSON from this.
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Post by netdirector on Sept 21, 2015 14:02:25 GMT -5
There simply isnt anything more that could be added to this conversation. I agree, there is little more to add. However, it should not be dropped or ignored as it is a warning to people. The lesson that is learned by the RB story is that parents and children do not just have to worry about the molester BUT they also have to worry about the immense number of adults that will cover up for the molester to keep the organization going. Do not think USA Volleyball will protect your children, nor AAU, nor JVA. They have no qualms about turning a blind eye. THAT IS THE REAL LESSON from this. +1 This was what was most eye-opening to me. Comments by usa001 & Wingzoz34 in particular seem to be looking to obscufate this point, and use the inaction by the governing bodies to infer a lack of wrong-doing by the individual. A very powerful individual, in this case. Big reality check for parents.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2015 14:40:16 GMT -5
I agree, there is little more to add. However, it should not be dropped or ignored as it is a warning to people. The lesson that is learned by the RB story is that parents and children do not just have to worry about the molester BUT they also have to worry about the immense number of adults that will cover up for the molester to keep the organization going. Do not think USA Volleyball will protect your children, nor AAU, nor JVA. They have no qualms about turning a blind eye. THAT IS THE REAL LESSON from this. +1 This was what was most eye-opening to me. Comments by usa001 & Wingzoz34 in particular seem to be looking to obscufate this point, and use the inaction by the governing bodies to infer a lack of wrong-doing by the individual. A very powerful individual, in this case. Big reality check for parents. So every parent that sends his or her child to Sports Performance is an enabler and should be tarred and feathered on sight. Every coach that coaches at Sports Performance is an enabler. Every college coach that recruits from Sports Performance is an enabler.
The problem is that posters like you have no idea what you are talking about. Your intentions are good, but your methods are poor. Everyone likes to bash the program that is on top. This happens with every sport. No difference. If it is not one thing, then it is something else. Maybe Butler is guilty and maybe he is not. No one on this forum is judge, juror, or executioner. Everything is an opinion. You will try to argue that, but you can't. Even you said that your wife wouldn't have a problem sending your daughter there.
The problem is that USA Volleyball, AAU, JVA, etc. have no legal grounds to do anything. USA Volleyball reinstated him to be a Chaperone. Why? No one has an answer to that. They will make one up or hypothesize. If he is truly guilty legally why allow him to be a Chaperone. That would make no sense to me or to the families involved in the allegations. Good move USA Volleyball.
ESPN does not follow-up on the story. Good journalism there. Every news story good or bad has a short shelf life.
Background screens are not the answer. Steps that organizations are taking to educate their coaches are important ie. Safesport, etc. But are more helpful to protect the coach from putting themselves in a bad situation. However, the most important education is to the parents and athletes themselves. Who is going to take on that responsibility? That is where you have the greatest opportunity for change.
But other posters are right, there is nothing more to discuss on the RB case at the moment. If there is something new, please share. And if I was really trying to cover this up or wanting to let the thread die, why would I keep responding to the thread.
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Post by netdirector on Sept 21, 2015 15:18:03 GMT -5
+1 This was what was most eye-opening to me. Comments by usa001 & Wingzoz34 in particular seem to be looking to obscufate this point, and use the inaction by the governing bodies to infer a lack of wrong-doing by the individual. A very powerful individual, in this case. Big reality check for parents. So every parent that sends his or her child to Sports Performance is an enabler and should be tarred and feathered on sight. Every coach that coaches at Sports Performance is an enabler. Every college coach that recruits from Sports Performance is an enabler.
The problem is that posters like you have no idea what you are talking about. Your intentions are good, but your methods are poor. Everyone likes to bash the program that is on top. This happens with every sport. No difference. If it is not one thing, then it is something else. Maybe Butler is guilty and maybe he is not. No one on this forum is judge, juror, or executioner. Everything is an opinion. You will try to argue that, but you can't. Even you said that your wife wouldn't have a problem sending your daughter there.
The problem is that USA Volleyball, AAU, JVA, etc. have no legal grounds to do anything. USA Volleyball reinstated him to be a Chaperone. Why? No one has an answer to that. They will make one up or hypothesize. If he is truly guilty legally why allow him to be a Chaperone. That would make no sense to me or to the families involved in the allegations. Good move USA Volleyball.
ESPN does not follow-up on the story. Good journalism there. Every news story good or bad has a short shelf life.
Background screens are not the answer. Steps that organizations are taking to educate their coaches are important ie. Safesport, etc. But are more helpful to protect the coach from putting themselves in a bad situation. However, the most important education is to the parents and athletes themselves. Who is going to take on that responsibility? That is where you have the greatest opportunity for change.
But other posters are right, there is nothing more to discuss on the RB case at the moment. If there is something new, please share. And if I was really trying to cover this up or wanting to let the thread die, why would I keep responding to the thread.
This is probably the most sensible, well-articulated post you've made in this thread. I agree with most everything. Especially the very first paragraph. Yes. The parents and the coaches, if they're aware of the allegations and Rick's own admission of sexual relationships with his players, have enabled Rick to succeed. And they've put their pursuit of winning games over the well-being of the girls. And it hasn't been me bashing the program... I've stated several times that they're hands down the best program. And the Rick is an excellent coach and businessman. Remove the fact he had sexual relations with several of his players and he should be in the Hall of Fame. But you can't. And the facts are so unethical in nature that to continue to sponsor him and his program gives a black eye to the sport itself. You keep stating we don't know if he's guilty or not, but I'm not sure what you're referring to. I'm referring to the fact he had sex with at least 3 of his players, which he's admitted. It doesn't matter to me whether it was consensual or not, or whether they were over 18 or not, or whether they were still playing for him or not. The girls say one thing, Rick says another. But all parties agree to the act itself having happened.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2015 15:42:11 GMT -5
So every parent that sends his or her child to Sports Performance is an enabler and should be tarred and feathered on sight. Every coach that coaches at Sports Performance is an enabler. Every college coach that recruits from Sports Performance is an enabler.
The problem is that posters like you have no idea what you are talking about. Your intentions are good, but your methods are poor. Everyone likes to bash the program that is on top. This happens with every sport. No difference. If it is not one thing, then it is something else. Maybe Butler is guilty and maybe he is not. No one on this forum is judge, juror, or executioner. Everything is an opinion. You will try to argue that, but you can't. Even you said that your wife wouldn't have a problem sending your daughter there.
The problem is that USA Volleyball, AAU, JVA, etc. have no legal grounds to do anything. USA Volleyball reinstated him to be a Chaperone. Why? No one has an answer to that. They will make one up or hypothesize. If he is truly guilty legally why allow him to be a Chaperone. That would make no sense to me or to the families involved in the allegations. Good move USA Volleyball.
ESPN does not follow-up on the story. Good journalism there. Every news story good or bad has a short shelf life.
Background screens are not the answer. Steps that organizations are taking to educate their coaches are important ie. Safesport, etc. But are more helpful to protect the coach from putting themselves in a bad situation. However, the most important education is to the parents and athletes themselves. Who is going to take on that responsibility? That is where you have the greatest opportunity for change.
But other posters are right, there is nothing more to discuss on the RB case at the moment. If there is something new, please share. And if I was really trying to cover this up or wanting to let the thread die, why would I keep responding to the thread.
This is probably the most sensible, well-articulated post you've made in this thread. I agree with most everything. Especially the very first paragraph. Yes. The parents and the coaches, if they're aware of the allegations and Rick's own admission of sexual relationships with his players, have enabled Rick to succeed. And they've put their pursuit of winning games over the well-being of the girls. And it hasn't been me bashing the program... I've stated several times that they're hands down the best program. And the Rick is an excellent coach and businessman. Remove the fact he had sexual relations with several of his players and he should be in the Hall of Fame. But you can't. And the facts are so unethical in nature that to continue to sponsor him and his program gives a black eye to the sport itself. You keep stating we don't know if he's guilty or not, but I'm not sure what you're referring to. I'm referring to the fact he had sex with at least 3 of his players, which he's admitted. It doesn't matter to me whether it was consensual or not, or whether they were over 18 or not, or whether they were still playing for him or not. The girls say one thing, Rick says another. But all parties agree to the act itself having happened. I was joking about them being enablers. Because they are not. I'm really don't care what your impression of my posts are or me for that matter.
You are right the program will continue to produce Championships and high caliber athletes. Nothing is going to change.
You must think everything in life is black or white.
You continue to contradict yourself since you started posting on this thread..."College is one thing... players/students in relationships with coaches/teachers is unfortunately fairly common. But like you said, they're over 18 and the vast majority are consensual"
Again, no answer to my questions...
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Post by netdirector on Sept 21, 2015 15:53:44 GMT -5
This is probably the most sensible, well-articulated post you've made in this thread. I agree with most everything. Especially the very first paragraph. Yes. The parents and the coaches, if they're aware of the allegations and Rick's own admission of sexual relationships with his players, have enabled Rick to succeed. And they've put their pursuit of winning games over the well-being of the girls. And it hasn't been me bashing the program... I've stated several times that they're hands down the best program. And the Rick is an excellent coach and businessman. Remove the fact he had sexual relations with several of his players and he should be in the Hall of Fame. But you can't. And the facts are so unethical in nature that to continue to sponsor him and his program gives a black eye to the sport itself. You keep stating we don't know if he's guilty or not, but I'm not sure what you're referring to. I'm referring to the fact he had sex with at least 3 of his players, which he's admitted. It doesn't matter to me whether it was consensual or not, or whether they were over 18 or not, or whether they were still playing for him or not. The girls say one thing, Rick says another. But all parties agree to the act itself having happened. I was joking about them being enablers. Because they are not. I'm really don't care what your impression of my posts are or me for that matter.
You are right the program will continue to produce Championships and high caliber athletes. Nothing is going to change.
You must think everything in life is black or white.
You continue to contradict yourself since you started posting on this thread..."College is one thing... players/students in relationships with coaches/teachers is unfortunately fairly common. But like you said, they're over 18 and the vast majority are consensual"
Again, no answer to my questions...
Y'know, you're sounding like an enabler yourself... I don't believe I've contradicted myself. I don't advocate college coaches sleeping with their players, but I do accept that it happens and the relationships formed are not always considered abusive, nor criminal. Some are, but there is definitely a grey area around what is acceptable to the parties involved. But if high school coaches are sleeping with their players, it is never under any circumstances an acceptable relationship. Not everything in life is black and white, but that certainly should be. From your posts, it seems you feel differently but never explain why.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2015 16:01:06 GMT -5
Those who enabled Rick Butler: 1. USAV -- when they allowed him to start coaching from the bench and be called a "chaperone" and they turned a blind eye to it (much the way USA Swimming and USA Gymnastics also did not seem to care that much about the athletes they pretend to support). 2. JVA -- the group of clubs that mutinied from USAV knew RB's past and did not care. They gave him more credibility. 3. AAU -- years later and strangely by a president who had a past of molesting little boys? disturbing 4. College coaches continued to go through RB to recruit his club members which gave RB an unreal amount of power over these young girls. I wonder if any colleges blackballed him? 5. Other coaches at SP. They knew the deal, they knew what happened but they participated at that club over others in the area. Disturbing. 6. Parents that knew.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2015 16:24:18 GMT -5
Those who enabled Rick Butler: 1. USAV -- when they allowed him to start coaching from the bench and be called a "chaperone" and they turned a blind eye to it (much the way USA Swimming and USA Gymnastics also did not seem to care that much about the athletes they pretend to support). 2. JVA -- the group of clubs that mutinied from USAV knew RB's past and did not care. They gave him more credibility. 3. AAU -- years later and strangely by a president who had a past of molesting little boys? disturbing 4. College coaches continued to go through RB to recruit his club members which gave RB an unreal amount of power over these young girls. I wonder if any colleges blackballed him? 5. Other coaches at SP. They knew the deal, they knew what happened but they participated at that club over others in the area. Disturbing. 6. Parents that knew. Hmmm. So would the clubs that enter their tournaments (club directors, coaches, players and their families). And the thousands of players and families that go to their camps. All the clubs that are JVA, AAU, and USAV because of their involvement.
The whole world is coming to an end. Everyone is an enabler.
Nothing is going to change. I think that is what bothers everyone.
I'm late to my appointment with my psychiatrist. I like the leather couch. It relaxes me.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2015 16:28:51 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2015 17:00:23 GMT -5
Those who enabled Rick Butler: 1. USAV -- when they allowed him to start coaching from the bench and be called a "chaperone" and they turned a blind eye to it (much the way USA Swimming and USA Gymnastics also did not seem to care that much about the athletes they pretend to support). 2. JVA -- the group of clubs that mutinied from USAV knew RB's past and did not care. They gave him more credibility. 3. AAU -- years later and strangely by a president who had a past of molesting little boys? disturbing 4. College coaches continued to go through RB to recruit his club members which gave RB an unreal amount of power over these young girls. I wonder if any colleges blackballed him? 5. Other coaches at SP. They knew the deal, they knew what happened but they participated at that club over others in the area. Disturbing. 6. Parents that knew. Hmmm. So would the clubs that enter their tournaments (club directors, coaches, players and their families). And the thousands of players and families that go to their camps. All the clubs that are JVA, AAU, and USAV because of their involvement.
The whole world is coming to an end. Everyone is an enabler.
Nothing is going to change. I think that is what bothers everyone.
I'm late to my appointment with my psychiatrist. I like the leather couch. It relaxes me.
I realize that you have a lot of issues with your own identity/masculinity and this topic hits very close to home for you. Mocking it just makes you look more desperate to cloud the issue. Yes, the other clubs (not all of them) but the ones that did not stand up and demand that USAV do something are also to blame. And, yes the clubs that play AAU and have not demanded he be removed from AAU events also are to blame. By staying silent, you are basically tarnishing the image of your own club through its membership in AAU. I hope you work out your issues and I actually truly hope you are going to see your psychiatrist like you stated, I think it will help you and also be a benefit to the people you have direct contact with.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2015 17:54:05 GMT -5
Hmmm. So would the clubs that enter their tournaments (club directors, coaches, players and their families). And the thousands of players and families that go to their camps. All the clubs that are JVA, AAU, and USAV because of their involvement.
The whole world is coming to an end. Everyone is an enabler.
Nothing is going to change. I think that is what bothers everyone.
I'm late to my appointment with my psychiatrist. I like the leather couch. It relaxes me.
I realize that you have a lot of issues with your own identity/masculinity and this topic hits very close to home for you. Mocking it just makes you look more desperate to cloud the issue. Yes, the other clubs (not all of them) but the ones that did not stand up and demand that USAV do something are also to blame. And, yes the clubs that play AAU and have not demanded he be removed from AAU events also are to blame. By staying silent, you are basically tarnishing the image of your own club through its membership in AAU. I hope you work out your issues and I actually truly hope you are going to see your psychiatrist like you stated, I think it will help you and also be a benefit to the people you have direct contact with. Wow. Not a member of Sports Performance. I appreciate you being prejudice and your concern for my well being all at the the same time. Can we be friends? If he is guilty and those clubs are members of those organiztions, they are enablers. You can't pick and choose.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2015 18:04:42 GMT -5
I realize that you have a lot of issues with your own identity/masculinity and this topic hits very close to home for you. Mocking it just makes you look more desperate to cloud the issue. Yes, the other clubs (not all of them) but the ones that did not stand up and demand that USAV do something are also to blame. And, yes the clubs that play AAU and have not demanded he be removed from AAU events also are to blame. By staying silent, you are basically tarnishing the image of your own club through its membership in AAU. I hope you work out your issues and I actually truly hope you are going to see your psychiatrist like you stated, I think it will help you and also be a benefit to the people you have direct contact with. Wow. Not a member of Sports Performance. I appreciate you being prejudice and your concern for my well being all at the the same time. Can we be friends? If he is guilty and those clubs are members of those organiztions, they are enablers. You can't pick and choose. Dumas is friends with nobody.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2015 18:04:58 GMT -5
I realize that you have a lot of issues with your own identity/masculinity and this topic hits very close to home for you. Mocking it just makes you look more desperate to cloud the issue. Yes, the other clubs (not all of them) but the ones that did not stand up and demand that USAV do something are also to blame. And, yes the clubs that play AAU and have not demanded he be removed from AAU events also are to blame. By staying silent, you are basically tarnishing the image of your own club through its membership in AAU. I hope you work out your issues and I actually truly hope you are going to see your psychiatrist like you stated, I think it will help you and also be a benefit to the people you have direct contact with. Wow. Not a member of Sports Performance. I appreciate you being prejudice and your concern for my well being all at the the same time. Can we be friends? If he is guilty and those clubs are members of those organiztions, they are enablers. You can't pick and choose. I know you are not at SP. Never said you were. Friends? I consider the manner which you constantly try to cloud this issue of child molestation disgusting, so no, we will not be friends.
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