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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2015 18:06:41 GMT -5
Wow. Not a member of Sports Performance. I appreciate you being prejudice and your concern for my well being all at the the same time. Can we be friends? If he is guilty and those clubs are members of those organiztions, they are enablers. You can't pick and choose. Dumas is friends with nobody. Correct, and Nobody is only friends with me for my wit. Even he does not really like me.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2015 18:19:20 GMT -5
Wow. Not a member of Sports Performance. I appreciate you being prejudice and your concern for my well being all at the the same time. Can we be friends? If he is guilty and those clubs are members of those organiztions, they are enablers. You can't pick and choose. I know you are not at SP. Never said you were. Friends? I consider the manner which you constantly try to cloud this issue of child molestation disgusting, so no, we will not be friends. You said it the best..."All generalizations are dangerous, even this one." - Alexandre Dumas
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2015 18:20:14 GMT -5
Dumas is friends with nobody. Correct, and Nobody is only friends with me for my wit. Even he does not really like me.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2015 18:22:12 GMT -5
I know you are not at SP. Never said you were. Friends? I consider the manner which you constantly try to cloud this issue of child molestation disgusting, so no, we will not be friends. You said it the best..."All generalizations are dangerous, even this one." - Alexandre Dumas touche. I prefer the dumas that wingz quoted a few months ago though.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2015 18:25:02 GMT -5
You said it the best..."All generalizations are dangerous, even this one." - Alexandre Dumas touche. I prefer the dumas that wingz quoted a few months ago though. You mean this one?
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Post by dorothymantooth on Sept 21, 2015 21:24:28 GMT -5
I realize that you have a lot of issues with your own identity/masculinity and this topic hits very close to home for you. Mocking it just makes you look more desperate to cloud the issue. Yes, the other clubs (not all of them) but the ones that did not stand up and demand that USAV do something are also to blame. And, yes the clubs that play AAU and have not demanded he be removed from AAU events also are to blame. By staying silent, you are basically tarnishing the image of your own club through its membership in AAU. I hope you work out your issues and I actually truly hope you are going to see your psychiatrist like you stated, I think it will help you and also be a benefit to the people you have direct contact with. Wow. Not a member of Sports Performance. I appreciate you being prejudice and your concern for my well being all at the the same time. Can we be friends? If he is guilty and those clubs are members of those organiztions, they are enablers. You can't pick and choose. OK, fair question, is every current member of the Catholic Church an enabler? Based on what I have read from folks the priests, employee's and parishioners would ALL be. And in this example there are thousands of cases, AND total cover-ups. Again, have no judgement one way or the other on this particular case, but based on the argument, are those still involved in the Catholic Church enablers?
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Post by northwoods on Sept 21, 2015 22:30:31 GMT -5
Well, as the extent of the abuse and cover-up in our Archdiocese became apparent, the only moral choice for our family was to cut all ties. As Forest Gump would say...That is all I have to say about that...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2015 0:29:43 GMT -5
+1 This was what was most eye-opening to me. Comments by usa001 & Wingzoz34 in particular seem to be looking to obscufate this point, and use the inaction by the governing bodies to infer a lack of wrong-doing by the individual. A very powerful individual, in this case. Big reality check for parents. So every parent that sends his or her child to Sports Performance is an enabler and should be tarred and feathered on sight. Every coach that coaches at Sports Performance is an enabler. Every college coach that recruits from Sports Performance is an enabler.
The problem is that posters like you have no idea what you are talking about. Your intentions are good, but your methods are poor. Everyone likes to bash the program that is on top. This happens with every sport. No difference. If it is not one thing, then it is something else. Maybe Butler is guilty and maybe he is not. No one on this forum is judge, juror, or executioner. Everything is an opinion. You will try to argue that, but you can't. Even you said that your wife wouldn't have a problem sending your daughter there.
The problem is that USA Volleyball, AAU, JVA, etc. have no legal grounds to do anything. USA Volleyball reinstated him to be a Chaperone. Why? No one has an answer to that. They will make one up or hypothesize. If he is truly guilty legally why allow him to be a Chaperone. That would make no sense to me or to the families involved in the allegations. Good move USA Volleyball.
ESPN does not follow-up on the story. Good journalism there. Every news story good or bad has a short shelf life.
Background screens are not the answer. Steps that organizations are taking to educate their coaches are important ie. Safesport, etc. But are more helpful to protect the coach from putting themselves in a bad situation. However, the most important education is to the parents and athletes themselves. Who is going to take on that responsibility? That is where you have the greatest opportunity for change.
But other posters are right, there is nothing more to discuss on the RB case at the moment. If there is something new, please share. And if I was really trying to cover this up or wanting to let the thread die, why would I keep responding to the thread.
Thank you to those who have kept threads here alive so that a new generation of parents like me with 12, 13 and 14 year olds can be made aware of what happened and look up the original articles and court documents to decide for themselves. Since this story began 30 years ago and the AAU is deliberating right now on what actions (if any) to take, it is a bit disingenuous to say there is nothing to discuss on RB at the moment. In fact, there seems to be more actively going on right now then there has been for years.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2015 2:25:34 GMT -5
Wow. Not a member of Sports Performance. I appreciate you being prejudice and your concern for my well being all at the the same time. Can we be friends? If he is guilty and those clubs are members of those organiztions, they are enablers. You can't pick and choose. OK, fair question, is every current member of the Catholic Church an enabler? Based on what I have read from folks the priests, employee's and parishioners would ALL be. And in this example there are thousands of cases, AND total cover-ups. Again, have no judgement one way or the other on this particular case, but based on the argument, are those still involved in the Catholic Church enablers? Parishoners that did not demand that the church take action certainly are enablers. Just like germans who stood by mute when they knew persecuting political rivals, gays, gypsies and jews was wrong hold responsibility for the actions of nazis. If you have power you must speak up or the silent majority is NEVER heard and followed. If you watch someone get bullied at school everyday and say nothing, you also are enabling the bully. It is not that complicated. yes and all the people kissing up to the new pope and being too polite to ask the hard questions about what he plans to do to amend for the past sins and how he plans to ensure it has ended is guity. Where you involved in club volleyball back then? I would be interested in hearing what you did if so.
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Post by dorothymantooth on Sept 22, 2015 8:00:12 GMT -5
OK, fair question, is every current member of the Catholic Church an enabler? Based on what I have read from folks the priests, employee's and parishioners would ALL be. And in this example there are thousands of cases, AND total cover-ups. Again, have no judgement one way or the other on this particular case, but based on the argument, are those still involved in the Catholic Church enablers? Parishoners that did not demand that the church take action certainly are enablers. Just like germans who stood by mute when they knew persecuting political rivals, gays, gypsies and jews was wrong hold responsibility for the actions of nazis. If you have power you must speak up or the silent majority is NEVER heard and followed. If you watch someone get bullied at school everyday and say nothing, you also are enabling the bully. It is not that complicated. yes and all the people kissing up to the new pope and being too polite to ask the hard questions about what he plans to do to amend for the past sins and how he plans to ensure it has ended is guity. Where you involved in club volleyball back then? I would be interested in hearing what you did if so. I understand what you are saying. The question is are all current members of the Roman Catholic Church enablers to this abuse?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2015 8:05:25 GMT -5
Wow. Not a member of Sports Performance. I appreciate you being prejudice and your concern for my well being all at the the same time. Can we be friends? If he is guilty and those clubs are members of those organiztions, they are enablers. You can't pick and choose. OK, fair question, is every current member of the Catholic Church an enabler? Based on what I have read from folks the priests, employee's and parishioners would ALL be. And in this example there are thousands of cases, AND total cover-ups. Again, have no judgement one way or the other on this particular case, but based on the argument, are those still involved in the Catholic Church enablers? I was not making the generalization. Dumas was. I was continuing them to show how irrational he was. It worked.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2015 8:09:26 GMT -5
So every parent that sends his or her child to Sports Performance is an enabler and should be tarred and feathered on sight. Every coach that coaches at Sports Performance is an enabler. Every college coach that recruits from Sports Performance is an enabler.
The problem is that posters like you have no idea what you are talking about. Your intentions are good, but your methods are poor. Everyone likes to bash the program that is on top. This happens with every sport. No difference. If it is not one thing, then it is something else. Maybe Butler is guilty and maybe he is not. No one on this forum is judge, juror, or executioner. Everything is an opinion. You will try to argue that, but you can't. Even you said that your wife wouldn't have a problem sending your daughter there.
The problem is that USA Volleyball, AAU, JVA, etc. have no legal grounds to do anything. USA Volleyball reinstated him to be a Chaperone. Why? No one has an answer to that. They will make one up or hypothesize. If he is truly guilty legally why allow him to be a Chaperone. That would make no sense to me or to the families involved in the allegations. Good move USA Volleyball.
ESPN does not follow-up on the story. Good journalism there. Every news story good or bad has a short shelf life.
Background screens are not the answer. Steps that organizations are taking to educate their coaches are important ie. Safesport, etc. But are more helpful to protect the coach from putting themselves in a bad situation. However, the most important education is to the parents and athletes themselves. Who is going to take on that responsibility? That is where you have the greatest opportunity for change.
But other posters are right, there is nothing more to discuss on the RB case at the moment. If there is something new, please share. And if I was really trying to cover this up or wanting to let the thread die, why would I keep responding to the thread.
Thank you to those who have kept threads here alive so that a new generation of parents like me with 12, 13 and 14 year olds can be made aware of what happened and look up the original articles and court documents to decide for themselves. Since this story began 30 years ago and the AAU is deliberating right now on what actions (if any) to take, it is a bit disingenuous to say there is nothing to discuss on RB at the moment. In fact, there seems to be more actively going on right now then there has been for years. What court documents? Please share. Not from page 1. We already dismissed those. I like the generalized statement on AAU deliberations. I'm sure that is happening. Wink. Wink. Welcome to the forum.
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Post by dorothymantooth on Sept 22, 2015 8:35:20 GMT -5
OK, fair question, is every current member of the Catholic Church an enabler? Based on what I have read from folks the priests, employee's and parishioners would ALL be. And in this example there are thousands of cases, AND total cover-ups. Again, have no judgement one way or the other on this particular case, but based on the argument, are those still involved in the Catholic Church enablers? I was not making the generalization. Dumas was. I was continuing them to show how irrational he was. It worked. Assuming you are talking about me, if the analogy of the Catholic Church is irrational, that would be the point as it is what folks are suggesting everyone involved in club volleyball would not participate in anything involving this individual or business. Again, these aren't my words or thoughts, and I offer no support or defense of the parties in question. While I certainly think you could argue some may have been enablers, how far does that extend out to?
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Post by netdirector on Sept 22, 2015 9:44:10 GMT -5
OK, fair question, is every current member of the Catholic Church an enabler? Based on what I have read from folks the priests, employee's and parishioners would ALL be. And in this example there are thousands of cases, AND total cover-ups. Again, have no judgement one way or the other on this particular case, but based on the argument, are those still involved in the Catholic Church enablers? I was not making the generalization. Dumas was. I was continuing them to show how irrational he was. It worked. The Catholic Church analogy is a really hard one to correlate to the world of junior athletics. The Catholic Church holds itself above the laws of man and answers only to God. They've admittedly made decisions they've since regretted, but as asking for forgiveness absolves it's participants of sins starting over with a clean slate appears to be a common practice. I doubt the essence of confession and absolution will ever be diminished in the church, but they do seem to be slowly acknowledging the need for different methods in dealing with abusers and the abused in their membership. In return, their ask for your faith. Which some offer blindly, regardless of what may happen, and others lose their faith and leave. You could argue that paying tithes to an organization that has protected predators is enabling them to continue that practice, but that's really a stretch. Junior athletics is NOT a religion (despite the abundance of zealots) and they do have to adhere to both the law of the land as well as the code of ethics and bylaws of the organizations that represent them. There's no issue of "forgiveness" at play here. There were rules, they were broken. Coaches will not have sex with their high school players - heck, they will not have any sort of inappropriate relationship with their players - or they will be removed from the organization, and potentially criminally charged. They should not be cover ups, there should not be token, meaningless punishments. You pointed out the majority of outrage in this thread revolved around the lack of any punishment for Rick. I'd go a step further and say there's outrage that it could happen again.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2015 9:44:27 GMT -5
I was not making the generalization. Dumas was. I was continuing them to show how irrational he was. It worked. Assuming you are talking about me, if the analogy of the Catholic Church is irrational, that would be the point as it is what folks are suggesting everyone involved in club volleyball would not participate in anything involving this individual or business. Again, these aren't my words or thoughts, and I offer no support or defense of the parties in question. While I certainly think you could argue some may have been enablers, how far does that extend out to? The Catholic Church is a good analogy actually. Everything always comes back to Church and State. The Middle Ages were tough on the Church.
I am saying that the coaches, players, and parents are not enablers at Sports Performance.
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