|
Post by GauchoYoungin on Oct 4, 2004 23:46:14 GMT -5
I was just interested in how people view heckling at events? Is it appropriate, should there be a limitation? How many people do it? Also, if anyone knows the official rules on it and could post them, that would be great. It is a hot topic with me right now. I don't want to get too much into it, but any comments at all would be grateful. Thanks in advance. GO GAUCHOS!!!
|
|
|
Post by BearClause on Oct 5, 2004 0:17:12 GMT -5
I was just interested in how people view heckling at events? Is it appropriate, should there be a limitation? How many people do it? Also, if anyone knows the official rules on it and could post them, that would be great. It is a hot topic with me right now. I don't want to get too much into it, but any comments at all would be grateful. Thanks in advance. GO GAUCHOS!!! Certainly happens all the time. I'm not terribly comfortable with anything of a personal nature, but what can you do? I don't mind so much hecklers who shout stuff like, "You're going to serve it into the net Chrissie! You can do it" Some of the biggest hecklers are college athletes. I remember a certain unnamed women's VB player who was at a men's VB club match screaming onto the court that a certain player (in her opinion) had a nice posterior; her actual phrasing was a bit more colorful. We had some problems with the men's basketball players at Cal, some of who got carried away and stepped onto the court (and were then warned). Last year, there was a particular visiting Stanford fan at Cal who sat in the front row, and had this habit of jumping onto the court every other time he wanted to celebrate. I'm surprised the ref didn't take notice and ask that the events staff warn this clown. The other night I was at the Pepperdine-St Mary's match when there were some SMC students making borderline bad taste comments ("you look hot #7") about some of the Pepperdine players. The irony was that these hecklers were a few rows in front of me, while the parents of some of the Pepperdine players were sitting next to me. I wanted to go down and say something (like "Do you realize that your talking about their daughter?"). At Cal at Stanford last Friday, a group of (I assume student) hecklers decided to get in front of my seats at the end of game 5 because it was the best position to scream at the Cal servers and bench. I suppose I could have asked the ushers to remove them, since all seating was reserved, and they were blocking my view. The student section was standing room only on the balcony. About the worst single fan I've personally witnessed was at UCSB during the 2002 NCAA Tournament. One guy decided to station himself behind the Cal rooting section (composed mostly of parents/relative) to heckel the visiting fans. One example of his witticisms would be, "Go back to Berkeley you Hippie Freaks!"
|
|
|
Post by BearClause on Oct 5, 2004 1:44:19 GMT -5
Download here: www.ncaa.org/library/rules/2004/2004_w_volleyball_rules.pdfP 75. Rule 17, Section 2 (The First Referee)
Crowd Control ARTICLE 5. The responsibility for crowd control rests with the host institution. The athletics director or designated representative(s) is expected to encourage team support and good sportsmanship from all spectators. Vulgar language, remarks regarding race or gender, physical intimidation, or other unsporting conduct should not be tolerated. Should the first referee notice or be notified that there is a problem whereby the crowd is affecting playing conditions on the court, the following procedures are followed: a. The first referee will temporarily suspend play. b. The first referee will instruct the second referee to communicate the problem to the host administrator, if immediately available, or to the host head coach. c. The host head coach seeks assistance from the host administrator on site who should rectify the problem. If no administrator is present, the responsibility then rests with the host head coach. Play remains suspended until the situation has been addressed. d. If steps a, b and c are not effective: If the host administration fails to resolve the problem and play cannot be resumed or if play must be suspended again, the first referee sanctions the home team with a team delay penalty (red card). The host administration/host head coach will be given another opportunity to resolve the problem. If play cannot be resumed or must be suspended again in the same match, the home team defaults the match (at a neutral site, the offending team defaults the match). e. Should a major incident occur, particularly if spectators should invade the playing area, the first referee must suspend the match and ask the organizers and the playing captain of the home team to re-establish order within a set period of time. If the interruption continues beyond this period of time, or if one of the teams refuses to continue playing, the first referee must instruct the other officials to leave the court along with the first referee. The first referee must record the incident on the score sheet and forward a report to the proper authority within 24 hours.
P 91. Event Management
4. Conduct of Ancillary Participants and Spectators. The responsibility for crowd control rests with the host administrator. The athletics director or designated representative is expected to require all spectators and fans to be good sports. Spectators must remain clear of the playing area one hour before the match and at all times during the match. Event management must ensure that rudeness, vulgar language, remarks regarding race or gender, physical intimidation and other unsporting conduct from spectators are not tolerated, and should immediately address such actions. Requiring appropriate conduct from coaches, players, and spectators benefits everyone in the sport. a. Noisemakers. Artificial noisemakers, including whistles and air horns, are not permitted in the playing or spectator areas. Fans are permitted to use non-electronic megaphones for voice amplification. Computerized noisemakers controlled by event management are permissible when the ball is out of play.My big worry would be that a group of visiting fans finds some way to disrupt play such that the home team would have to forfeit. The only place where I've seen a stoppage of play was when UCLA played at San Francisco. Andy Banachowski apparently didn't appreciate some of the vulgar remarks coming from several bare-torsoed USF fans. He was probably also cranky because they had just lost a game to USF. Security actually ejected a few of the USF fans out of the building.
|
|
|
Post by roy on Oct 5, 2004 2:31:52 GMT -5
I am personally not big on heckling. I tend to like sports to be kept remotely clean. Let the players go out there and just appreciate their effort. But I know that I am in the minority for it.
I only get really upset when it will physically disrupt the players or is derogatory in nature. At one of the men's venues, students are almost yelling into the server's ear. Making a lot of noise is one thing, but to actually disrupt the player is another. And I think any kind of racial slurs or anything about a person's looks should be left out.
|
|
|
Post by Barefoot In Kailua on Oct 5, 2004 4:17:05 GMT -5
I only get really upset when it will physically disrupt the players or is derogatory in nature. And I think any kind of racial slurs or anything about a person's looks should be left out. I agree with roy. Heckling is okay so long as its not derogatory, sexist, or racially motivated.
|
|
|
Post by Island on Oct 5, 2004 5:05:16 GMT -5
It's almost a weird obsession with fans, particularly college fans to heckle. They aren't helping their team if they don't give the opposing team a "hard time". In some sports like football and basketball, heckling is sometimes rewarded or encouraged, a few places getting national or regional recognition for being "tough places to play". I like to think that it is different in volleyball and I would probably say that it is much tamer than other sports. However, as someone already mentioned, lots of college athletes and boosters do their darndest to make a difference from the stands, going so far as to outright ridicule or harrass opposing players. I don't mind booing or hissing or shouts but when you hear the same voice yelling about bad calls or the personal appearance of a player, it gets on my nerves.
|
|
|
Post by huskervbfan on Oct 5, 2004 5:29:35 GMT -5
It just doesn't happen at Nebraska but if someone did do it, they would be the one that was booed. We prefer to let the athletes on the court determine the outcome from that standpoint but we can get VERY loud. We cheer for great volleyball, regardless of which side of the net it comes from but we cheer louder when it is our ladies who do the best.
We have been known to help a ref understand when he/she made a mistake however. ;D
Nebraska is a different kind of crowd from most places though since we have been sold out for several years and mostly with season tickets holders. That means that only a few college students can even get tickets and even then, only quite a ways up from the court.
My personal feeling is that there is absoluetel no room for that activity. You can make a difference on the court by being supportive of your team without degrading the opponents.
|
|
|
Post by Island on Oct 5, 2004 5:38:54 GMT -5
Nebraska has so many great fans, they don't need to resort to intimidation games. They are intimidating. And they know how to let refs know they don't like a call. And most fans know how to convey a call they didn't like and a call that is a travesty of justice without making every call look like the Black Sox Scandal. It just doesn't happen at Nebraska but if someone did do it, they would be the one that was booed. We prefer to let the athletes on the court determine the outcome from that standpoint but we can get VERY loud. We cheer for great volleyball, regardless of which side of the net it comes from but we cheer louder when it is our ladies who do the best. We have been known to help a ref understand when he/she made a mistake however. ;D Nebraska is a different kind of crowd from most places though since we have been sold out for several years and mostly with season tickets holders. That means that only a few college students can even get tickets and even then, only quite a ways up from the court. My personal feeling is that there is absoluetel no room for that activity. You can make a difference on the court by being supportive of your team without degrading the opponents.
|
|
|
Post by beachman on Oct 5, 2004 8:45:04 GMT -5
Most of the heckling that I have witnessed has come from members of the home team's other athletic teams. We have had that problem on two occasions that I am aware of at the Pyramid and I have seen it from both UOP and UCSB as well....bands can also be a major source of hecklers, such as in the PAC-10 where they have the money to support their bands, etc....all in all I am not sure that it really adds much to the quality of the "experience", so to speak.....Hawaii's fans can get very vociferous as well, but then again, you UH fans already know this right?
|
|
|
Post by 7thWoman on Oct 5, 2004 9:03:47 GMT -5
Here we go again...
It's sort of interesting how a fan can get away with all kinds of heckling during the regular season, but as soon as the NCAA is in town, the host school has to pretend they don't permit that sort of behavior. The NCAA would like volleyball crowds to sit there quietly and act like we were watching golf.
I think words are words and if they end up affecting the play, so be it. The players just need to learn to be a bit more professional and not let it bother them. Afterall, Division 1 is about the highest skill level there is and the players on the court are being compensated for playing a game they love, maybe not with money, but certainly with scholarships and special privileges. Furthermore, the fans have to pay to seem them play. I don't think it's too much to ask to allow the fans a few obnoxious comments after a long, hard day of work.
Out of curiosity GauchoYoungin', are you asking because of the guy who got thrown out of the Pacific game last weekend? That guy went awfully easy.
|
|
|
Post by LuckyVB on Oct 5, 2004 9:09:58 GMT -5
I think the Illinois student section is horrible to the opposing team. And I live in Illinois. They sometimes bring a small whiteboard and write messages to the opposing players. Last year I remember one time it said "Number 5 we will eat your children". I can't remember who they were playing or who Number 5 was.
|
|
|
Post by SaltNPepper on Oct 5, 2004 10:27:25 GMT -5
Here we go again... It's sort of interesting how a fan can get away with all kinds of heckling during the regular season, but as soon as the NCAA is in town, the host school has to pretend they don't permit that sort of behavior. To me, this entire issue is a reflection of the standards that institutions set upon themselves. If a school does not want to tolerate behavior that is bordering or crossing the line, they can instruct and insist their ushers and staff personal follow "their" rules of conduct during an entire season. It won't take the fans long after several are ejected to figure out how far they are allowed to go. I really think when you focus on fan bahavior you're missing the boat - you need to focus of institutional standards. If as a visiting fan you believe the host institution is not doing their best to follow the spirit of the NCAA rules, you can always write their athletic admisistrators a letter explaining what has happened and copy the NCAA. Obviously, if your own school is just as bad, then you might want to start their first. If enough fans took it upon themselves to take some sort of responsible action the situation quoted above would be handled long before the NCAA tournament every got started.
|
|
|
Post by 7thWoman on Oct 5, 2004 10:33:03 GMT -5
Actually what I'm saying is "F*** the NCAA."
|
|
|
Post by The Bofa on the Sofa on Oct 5, 2004 11:42:10 GMT -5
Here we go again... It's sort of interesting how a fan can get away with all kinds of heckling during the regular season, but as soon as the NCAA is in town, the host school has to pretend they don't permit that sort of behavior. The NCAA would like volleyball crowds to sit there quietly and act like we were watching golf. This is a false dichotomy. You can certainly be a vocal, supportive fan without having to try to degrade or heckle the opposing team. I see it all the time. The problem comes with people who don't seem to understand this concept. As for Illinois, when I was there this year I didn't see too many problems. Just the usual loud cheering when the opponent serves (which I don't see a problem with unless it gets personal). I don't remember hearing anything that I would consider over the line (and I didn't see any note boards) but then, I wasn't all that close to the student section so it may have gone on that I didn't hear. For me, "over the line" is basically anything that gets personal with negative connotations. If you are going to start directing things at a single player, then it better be something positive. Note that this allows a lot of lee-way. For example, booing the opposing team when they are announced doesn't really bother me, as long as it is the team that gets booed. I can also handle screaming during a serve, provided that it is basically a cheer and not a taunt ("Hit the net! Hit the net!"). Purdue used to have a great cheer on a net serve ("Who put that net there?") but they haven't done it for a couple of years. I don't know why, it was a great cheer, and most times, the players on the other bench laughed the first time they heard it. When I was in Illinois, I didn't see too many problems. The only thing was their "You can't do that" cheer that they do on things like ball handling and net calls, but it is obviously just a standard response to a situation, as opposed to being directed at an individual.
|
|
|
Post by 7thWoman on Oct 5, 2004 12:16:23 GMT -5
If you are going to start directing things at a single player, then it better be something positive. Why? What's wrong with singling out a talented player and trying to rattle him/her? It may not be nice, but so what?
|
|