BYU 2020

[mintonetteman]

Sept 9, 2020 19:26:51 GMT -5 charger0304 said:

This thread sure took a turn...

In any case I think it was well acknowledged that 2020 would be a rebuilding year for BYU, especially once Gneiting decided to go on her mission. The impact of Robinson’s transfer is still up in the air.

Olmstead and staff are unapologetic about BYU’s LDS status. They moved on without hesitation when a top 2022 wasn’t sure she was interested because of the Church affiliation.

[WCvb1]

Sept 9, 2020 21:14:26 GMT -5 mintonetteman said:

Sept 9, 2020 19:26:51 GMT -5 charger0304 said:

This thread sure took a turn...

In any case I think it was well acknowledged that 2020 would be a rebuilding year for BYU, especially once Gneiting decided to go on her mission. The impact of Robinson’s transfer is still up in the air.

Olmstead and staff are unapologetic about BYU’s LDS status. They moved on without hesitation when a top 2022 wasn’t sure she was interested because of the Church affiliation.

Yes, I agree that 2020 will be a rebuilding year.  I think 2021 may also be weak.  The reason's for this downturn can be laid at the feet of recruiting misses or lack of planning.  Depending on the coaches emphasis on athletic ability, 2022 might turn the corner.  BYU women have the opportunity to just reload which is why I finally decided to weigh in on this board after reading it occasionally for years.  Non LDS Girls are easier to recruit to BYU than boys and I also believe that the LDS talent in VB is a big enough pool for Olmstead, David and Jonny to just reload and remain a top 16 program with occasional movements into the final 4.  There is no reason to see LDS Libero's going to Creighton (who may be better than Maddie), setters going to Neb/Baylor/UWisc (maybe even to USD which would be terrible news) and OH's going to other top programs around the country simply because they weren't offered scholly's or even walk on status at BYU.  As the next 4 seasons unfold I will point out the LDS girls who weren't recruited by BYU and are playing and winning at programs that are above BYU.  Then we can have a talent evaluation/recruiting conversation that means something.

[bkedane]

Sept 10, 2020 16:04:50 GMT -5 WCvb1 said:

Sept 9, 2020 21:14:26 GMT -5 mintonetteman said:

Yes, I agree that 2020 will be a rebuilding year.  I think 2021 may also be weak.  The reason's for this downturn can be laid at the feet of recruiting misses or lack of planning.  Depending on the coaches emphasis on athletic ability, 2022 might turn the corner.  BYU women have the opportunity to just reload which is why I finally decided to weigh in on this board after reading it occasionally for years.  Non LDS Girls are easier to recruit to BYU than boys and I also believe that the LDS talent in VB is a big enough pool for Olmstead, David and Jonny to just reload and remain a top 16 program with occasional movements into the final 4.  There is no reason to see LDS Libero's going to Creighton (who may be better than Maddie), setters going to Neb/Baylor/UWisc (maybe even to USD which would be terrible news) and OH's going to other top programs around the country simply because they weren't offered scholly's or even walk on status at BYU.  As the next 4 seasons unfold I will point out the LDS girls who weren't recruited by BYU and are playing and winning at programs that are above BYU.  Then we can have a talent evaluation/recruiting conversation that means something.

Is every LDS player who has top 20 ability automatically a good fit for BYU volleyball?
Most top 20 programs don't recruit all players with top 20 level ability. And such programs certainly don't make offers to all such players.
For these reasons, criticisms of BYU offers to players not up to that level make more sense to me than criticisms of BYU for non-offers.
On this issue though, I can't think of any top program off hand that doesn't make offers on occasion to players who aren't highest level talent. It happens regularly.

[WCvb1]

Sept 10, 2020 16:31:07 GMT -5 bkedane said:

Sept 10, 2020 16:04:50 GMT -5 WCvb1 said:

Yes, I agree that 2020 will be a rebuilding year.  I think 2021 may also be weak.  The reason's for this downturn can be laid at the feet of recruiting misses or lack of planning.  Depending on the coaches emphasis on athletic ability, 2022 might turn the corner.  BYU women have the opportunity to just reload which is why I finally decided to weigh in on this board after reading it occasionally for years.  Non LDS Girls are easier to recruit to BYU than boys and I also believe that the LDS talent in VB is a big enough pool for Olmstead, David and Jonny to just reload and remain a top 16 program with occasional movements into the final 4.  There is no reason to see LDS Libero's going to Creighton (who may be better than Maddie), setters going to Neb/Baylor/UWisc (maybe even to USD which would be terrible news) and OH's going to other top programs around the country simply because they weren't offered scholly's or even walk on status at BYU.  As the next 4 seasons unfold I will point out the LDS girls who weren't recruited by BYU and are playing and winning at programs that are above BYU.  Then we can have a talent evaluation/recruiting conversation that means something.

Is every LDS player who has top 20 ability automatically a good fit for BYU volleyball?
Most top 20 programs don't recruit all players with top 20 level ability. And such programs certainly don't make offers to all such players.
For these reasons, criticisms of BYU offers to players not up to that level make more sense to me than criticisms of BYU for non-offers.
On this issue though, I can't think of any top program off hand that doesn't make offers on occasion to players who aren't highest level talent. It happens regularly.

All good points bkedane.  Obviously not all top 20 or even top 50 positional players are a good fit for BYU.  That is a hurdle for the BYU staff's in all sports.  For now, I am just speaking about LDS girls who ARE qualified to go to BYU and also are in the top 250.  The pool of BYU eligible LDS athletes is big enough to field a top 16 team on a consistent basis if they don't pass on top 250 players.  Every once in while (6 or so years) that LDS pool will be deep enough and talented enough to push BYU women into final 4 territory.  The catch is that BYU coaches have to correctly evaluate and filter through the pod of prospective athletes to get the best ones (defined as the highest upside).  No staff is going to be perfect and there will be a miss here and there.  Looking for upside potential vs current skills is a trait that only the very best coaches have.  I can't count how many times my husband says that Bill Belichick has done it again.  He picks off players who aren't starting for other NFL teams and trades for them or takes them off the free agent wires.  They weren't being utilized for whatever reason by their current staff as a starter.  Example is former BYU player Kyle Van Noy.  He was sitting on the sidelines as a second and third string player for a terrible Detroit Lions team and Belichick calls and works out trade that cost him almost nothing.  Van Noy starts immediately and wins a Super Bowl for New England.  The list of good players who sit on the sidelines of supposedly great professional coaching staffs is staggering and according to my husband, who is an NFL scout.  He says New England, Seattle and Kansas City all stand out in talent evaluations because of Belichick, Pete Carol, and Andy Reid.    He also says that Nick Saban, Urban Meyer and Dabo Sweeney have the same traits.  Furthermore, he says that there are a few college women's vb coaches (Hambly, Cook, Jones, McGuyre, and McCutcheon) who are head's and shoulders above the rest in that type of evaluation.  Ability to spot upside re athletic ability is a unique trait.  It also crosses the line into different sports.  My husband can walk into a gym (he knows nothing about vb) and tell me who the "players" are in a tryout with 200 kids.  He can also tell me on my team who should be on the floor ...... not who the best vb players are at that point .... but who will be the best players (given playing time) at the end of the season or the next year.  I have argued with him over decades about girls (and boys) who I thought were the best.  He just says, put them on the floor and give them 10 matches of playing time and re-evaluate.  I have been correct twice out of more than 100 players we disagreed on.  He always says to "find your athletes and then teach them the game" and I now believe him but it is still hard for me to spot and it takes me much longer than it does him!  Sometimes I still don't ever see it.

Back to vb!  Colleges can have no more than 3 misses on an 18 person roster and hopefully not all in the same position.  My worry is that when you have an LDS girl who is rated in the top 250 it should be a direct offer asap from BYU.  Don't wait around.  That isn't a very big pool for LDS athletes.  If she doesn't turn out and you are BYU, no big deal, you already have 6 or 7 players on your roster who aren't good enough to get you into the NCAA tourney and they weren't top 250 recruits to begin with.  It is a numbers game.  You will still need to recruit around the edges for those players who are/will be very good but weren't on good club teams or live in rural areas where the vb advantages are few.  Of course, what they need to be looking for is athletic ability, not super skills!  That is where the big college programs make their living is picking up the obviously highly ranked recruits and then picking off a couple of under the radar girls who weren't even known until after 1 year in their college programs at Nebraska, Minnesota, Baylor, Wisc, and Penn State.  Suddenly a girl from a home town of 200 people is the MVP of a final 4 team.  Girls who are excellent athletes will develop and pass the more technically trained girls coming out of their freshman and soph years in high school.  The earlier you offer a girl in terms of age, the bigger the risk.  When you offer a freshman in HS, you better know her body type, work ethic, upside athletic ability, and internal drive.  Some backgrounds tend to get more mature/stronger/quicker than most, but they also have a hard time maintaining a D-1 body as they get older.  Coaches have to know and watch for that issue.  BYU has had a few misses which are directly related to offering early and having the girls grow themselves right out of quickness and jumping ability at the D-1 level.

You all are probably correct, I am taking this Jardine thing too far, I personally think she will be a very good hitter at Wisc.  But her walk on offer at BYU is what sent me over the edge because this type of thing has gone on before at BYU in women's vb.  So, it isn't a Jardine issue .... she will be fine in a top 4 program in the nation, but if BYU wants to be a consistent Sweet 16 team or better, they can't allow the next recruits who are LDS and have all the athletic ability to succeed in D-1 vb to walk away to other programs.  Particularly if they are a top 250 recruit.  BYU just can't afford that risk because they don't have a huge pool of fish to choose from if they want to compete for a national championship.  BYU through its recruiting gene pool usually has height!  What they struggle to identify are crazy good athletes who can develop into championship level back row passers.  I am hoping that the Meyer girl is the answer to the setting position because BYU tends to struggle in evaluation of setters also.  From the looks of it, she has the athletic ability which is a step in the right direction.  Everyone always points to LHE as a great setter and I agree.  But she wasn't offered a scholarship and walked on.  Good thing Utah didn't offer her!  We got lucky that she only really pursued BYU. 

  

[ay2013]

Sept 11, 2020 13:14:29 GMT -5 WCvb1 said:

Sept 10, 2020 16:31:07 GMT -5 bkedane said:

Is every LDS player who has top 20 ability automatically a good fit for BYU volleyball?
Most top 20 programs don't recruit all players with top 20 level ability. And such programs certainly don't make offers to all such players.
For these reasons, criticisms of BYU offers to players not up to that level make more sense to me than criticisms of BYU for non-offers.
On this issue though, I can't think of any top program off hand that doesn't make offers on occasion to players who aren't highest level talent. It happens regularly.

All good points bkedane.  Obviously not all top 20 or even top 50 positional players are a good fit for BYU.  That is a hurdle for the BYU staff's in all sports.  For now, I am just speaking about LDS girls who ARE qualified to go to BYU and also are in the top 250.  The pool of BYU eligible LDS athletes is big enough to field a top 16 team on a consistent basis if they don't pass on top 250 players.  Every once in while (6 or so years) that LDS pool will be deep enough and talented enough to push BYU women into final 4 territory.  The catch is that BYU coaches have to correctly evaluate and filter through the pod of prospective athletes to get the best ones (defined as the highest upside).  No staff is going to be perfect and there will be a miss here and there.  Looking for upside potential vs current skills is a trait that only the very best coaches have.  I can't count how many times my husband says that Bill Belichick has done it again.  He picks off players who aren't starting for other NFL teams and trades for them or takes them off the free agent wires.  They weren't being utilized for whatever reason by their current staff as a starter.  Example is former BYU player Kyle Van Noy.  He was sitting on the sidelines as a second and third string player for a terrible Detroit Lions team and Belichick calls and works out trade that cost him almost nothing.  Van Noy starts immediately and wins a Super Bowl for New England.  The list of good players who sit on the sidelines of supposedly great professional coaching staffs is staggering and according to my husband, who is an NFL scout.  He says New England, Seattle and Kansas City all stand out in talent evaluations because of Belichick, Pete Carol, and Andy Reid.    He also says that Nick Saban, Urban Meyer and Dabo Sweeney have the same traits.  Furthermore, he says that there are a few college women's vb coaches (Hambly, Cook, Jones, McGuyre, and McCutcheon) who are head's and shoulders above the rest in that type of evaluation.  Ability to spot upside re athletic ability is a unique trait.  It also crosses the line into different sports.  My husband can walk into a gym (he knows nothing about vb) and tell me who the "players" are in a tryout with 200 kids.  He can also tell me on my team who should be on the floor ...... not who the best vb players are at that point .... but who will be the best players (given playing time) at the end of the season or the next year.  I have argued with him over decades about girls (and boys) who I thought were the best.  He just says, put them on the floor and give them 10 matches of playing time and re-evaluate.  I have been correct twice out of more than 100 players we disagreed on.  He always says to "find your athletes and then teach them the game" and I now believe him but it is still hard for me to spot and it takes me much longer than it does him!  Sometimes I still don't ever see it.

Back to vb!  Colleges can have no more than 3 misses on an 18 person roster and hopefully not all in the same position.  My worry is that when you have an LDS girl who is rated in the top 250 it should be a direct offer asap from BYU.  Don't wait around.  That isn't a very big pool for LDS athletes.  If she doesn't turn out and you are BYU, no big deal, you already have 6 or 7 players on your roster who aren't good enough to get you into the NCAA tourney and they weren't top 250 recruits to begin with.  It is a numbers game.  You will still need to recruit around the edges for those players who are/will be very good but weren't on good club teams or live in rural areas where the vb advantages are few.  Of course, what they need to be looking for is athletic ability, not super skills!  That is where the big college programs make their living is picking up the obviously highly ranked recruits and then picking off a couple of under the radar girls who weren't even known until after 1 year in their college programs at Nebraska, Minnesota, Baylor, Wisc, and Penn State.  Suddenly a girl from a home town of 200 people is the MVP of a final 4 team.  Girls who are excellent athletes will develop and pass the more technically trained girls coming out of their freshman and soph years in high school.  The earlier you offer a girl in terms of age, the bigger the risk.  When you offer a freshman in HS, you better know her body type, work ethic, upside athletic ability, and internal drive.  Some backgrounds tend to get more mature/stronger/quicker than most, but they also have a hard time maintaining a D-1 body as they get older.  Coaches have to know and watch for that issue.  BYU has had a few misses which are directly related to offering early and having the girls grow themselves right out of quickness and jumping ability at the D-1 level.

You all are probably correct, I am taking this Jardine thing too far, I personally think she will be a very good hitter at Wisc.  But her walk on offer at BYU is what sent me over the edge because this type of thing has gone on before at BYU in women's vb.  So, it isn't a Jardine issue .... she will be fine in a top 4 program in the nation, but if BYU wants to be a consistent Sweet 16 team or better, they can't allow the next recruits who are LDS and have all the athletic ability to succeed in D-1 vb to walk away to other programs.  Particularly if they are a top 250 recruit.  BYU just can't afford that risk because they don't have a huge pool of fish to choose from if they want to compete for a national championship.  BYU through its recruiting gene pool usually has height!  What they struggle to identify are crazy good athletes who can develop into championship level back row passers.  I am hoping that the Meyer girl is the answer to the setting position because BYU tends to struggle in evaluation of setters also.  From the looks of it, she has the athletic ability which is a step in the right direction.  Everyone always points to LHE as a great setter and I agree.  But she wasn't offered a scholarship and walked on.  Good thing Utah didn't offer her!  We got lucky that she only really pursued BYU. 

  

What 6-7 players does BYU have that weren’t top 50 recruits that are good enough to get them into the ncaa tournament are you talking about?

[atticus]

Recruiting to BYU is both harder and easier than at non-church schools. There are a lot of LDS kids who want to go there so badly they’re willing to turn down scholarship offers at other great programs just to walk on at BYU. LHE is a great example. I think they often can get much better walk ons than other schools and sometimes they pan out to be quite good. At other times they may not end up playing much but they push the practice gym to be tougher. Some of the people you’ve mentioned who you don’t think belong in the gym are likely walk ons and aren’t taking up scholarships. Most coaches of course don’t talk about who is a walk-on or what people’s scholarship terms. It’s like discussing someone’s salary.
Yeah being a church school w/ a strict honor code narrows the recruiting pool significantly. Having more focus isn’t always the worst thing though. And I think it’s true that more female athletes would tend to be ok with the honor code than male, but BYU football and men’s basketball programs also get plenty of recruits who aren’t LDS. Speaking of football, BYU is playing. So at least they’ve got a cash flow coming into their athletic dept which is more than most schools can say at the moment.

[WCvb1]

Sept 11, 2020 13:21:16 GMT -5 ay2013 said:

Sept 11, 2020 13:14:29 GMT -5 WCvb1 said:

All good points bkedane.  Obviously not all top 20 or even top 50 positional players are a good fit for BYU.  That is a hurdle for BYU staff in all sports.  For now, I am just speaking about LDS girls who ARE qualified to go to BYU and also are in the top 250.  The pool of BYU eligible LDS athletes is big enough to field a top 16 team on a consistent basis if they don't pass on top 250 players.  Every once in while (6 or so years) that LDS pool will be deep enough and talented enough to push BYU women into final 4 territory.  The catch is that BYU coaches have to correctly evaluate and filter through the pod of prospective athletes to get the best ones (defined as the highest upside).  No staff is going to be perfect and there will be a miss here and there.  Looking for upside potential vs current skills is a trait that only the very best coaches have.  I can't count how many times my husband says that Bill Belichick has done it again.  He picks off players who aren't starting for other NFL teams and trades for them or takes them off the free agent wires.  They weren't being utilized for whatever reason by their current staff as a starter.  Example is former BYU player Kyle Van Noy.  He was sitting on the sidelines as a second and third string player for a terrible Detroit Lions team and Belichick calls and works out trade that cost him almost nothing.  Van Noy starts immediately and wins a Super Bowl for New England.  The list of good players who sit on the sidelines of supposedly great professional coaching staffs is staggering and according to my husband, who is an NFL scout.  He says New England, Seattle and Kansas City all stand out in talent evaluations because of Belichick, Pete Carol, and Andy Reid.    He also says that Nick Saban, Urban Meyer and Dabo Sweeney have the same traits.  Furthermore, he says that there are a few college women's vb coaches (Hambly, Cook, Jones, McGuyre, and McCutcheon) who are head's and shoulders above the rest in that type of evaluation.  Ability to spot upside re athletic ability is a unique trait.  It also crosses the line into different sports.  My husband can walk into a gym (he knows nothing about vb) and tell me who the "players" are in a tryout with 200 kids.  He can also tell me on my team who should be on the floor ...... not who the best vb players are at that point .... but who will be the best players (given playing time) at the end of the season or the next year.  I have argued with him over decades about girls (and boys) who I thought were the best.  He just says, put them on the floor and give them 10 matches of playing time and re-evaluate.  I have been correct twice out of more than 100 players we disagreed on.  He always says to "find your athletes and then teach them the game" and I now believe him but it is still hard for me to spot and it takes me much longer than it does him!  Sometimes I still don't ever see it.

Back to vb!  Colleges can have no more than 3 misses on an 18 person roster and hopefully not all in the same position.  My worry is that when you have an LDS girl who is rated in the top 250 it should be a direct offer asap from BYU.  Don't wait around.  That isn't a very big pool for LDS athletes.  If she doesn't turn out and you are BYU, no big deal, you already have 6 or 7 players on your roster who aren't good enough to get you into the NCAA tourney and they weren't top 250 recruits to begin with.  It is a numbers game.  You will still need to recruit around the edges for those players who are/will be very good but weren't on good club teams or live in rural areas where the vb advantages are few.  Of course, what they need to be looking for is athletic ability, not super skills!  That is where the big college programs make their living by picking up the obviously highly ranked recruits and then picking off a couple of under the radar girls who weren't even known until after 1 year in their college programs at Nebraska, Minnesota, Baylor, Wisc, and Penn State.  Suddenly a girl from a home town of 200 people is the MVP of a final 4 team.  Girls who are excellent athletes will develop and pass the more technically trained girls coming out of their freshman and soph years in high school.  The earlier you offer a girl in terms of age, the bigger the risk.  When you offer a freshman in HS, you better know her body type, work ethic, upside athletic ability, and internal drive.  Some backgrounds tend to get more mature/stronger/quicker than most, but they also have a hard time maintaining a D-1 body as they get older.  Coaches have to know and watch for that issue.  BYU has had a few misses which are directly related to offering early and having the girls grow themselves right out of quickness and jumping ability at the D-1 level.

You all are probably correct, I am taking this Jardine thing too far, I personally think she will be a very good hitter at Wisc.  But her walk on offer at BYU is what sent me over the edge because this type of thing has gone on before at BYU in women's vb.  So, it isn't a Jardine issue .... she will be fine in a top 4 program in the nation, but if BYU wants to be a consistent Sweet 16 team or better, they can't allow the next recruits who are LDS and have all the athletic ability to succeed in D-1 vb to walk away to other programs.  Particularly if they are a top 250 recruit.  BYU just can't afford that risk because they don't have a huge pool of fish to choose from if they want to compete for a national championship.  BYU through its recruiting gene pool usually has height!  What they struggle to identify are crazy good athletes who can develop into championship level back row passers.  I am hoping that the Meyer girl is the answer to the setting position because BYU tends to struggle in evaluation of setters also.  From the looks of it, she has the athletic ability which is a step in the right direction.  Everyone always points to LHE as a great setter and I agree.  But she wasn't offered a scholarship and walked on.  Good thing Utah didn't offer her!  We got lucky that she only really pursued BYU. 

  

What 6-7 players does BYU have that weren’t top 50 recruits that are good enough to get them into the ncaa tournament are you talking about?

I think you might have misread my comment.  I tried to say that there are 6-7 players on the BYU roster who aren't good enough to get them to the top of the WCC or into the NCAA tourney.  So, with that in mind, if you offer a top 250 player and it is a miss ..... it is not that big of a deal because BYU already has players who weren't top 250 recruits (maybe walk-on's) and some of them aren't panning out either.  I guess my point is that I would rather miss on top 250 level girls .... but recruit all of them ..... then hand scholly's out to certain off the radar players and be forced to ask a top 100 player to walk on and risk it!  I think BYU ought to take that approach.  I maintain that Bower #3 was clearly a walk on candidate who could get a scholly after 1 year if she proved she belonged.  

[bbg95]

Sept 12, 2020 9:35:03 GMT -5 atticus said:

Recruiting to BYU is both harder and easier than at non-church schools. There are a lot of LDS kids who want to go there so badly they’re willing to turn down scholarship offers at other great programs just to walk on at BYU. LHE is a great example. I think they often can get much better walk ons than other schools and sometimes they pan out to be quite good. At other times they may not end up playing much but they push the practice gym to be tougher. Some of the people you’ve mentioned who you don’t think belong in the gym are likely walk ons and aren’t taking up scholarships. Most coaches of course don’t talk about who is a walk-on or what people’s scholarship terms. It’s like discussing someone’s salary.
Yeah being a church school w/ a strict honor code narrows the recruiting pool significantly. Having more focus isn’t always the worst thing though. And I think it’s true that more female athletes would tend to be ok with the honor code than male, but BYU football and men’s basketball programs also get plenty of recruits who aren’t LDS. Speaking of football, BYU is playing. So at least they’ve got a cash flow coming into their athletic dept which is more than most schools can say at the moment.

Agreed on pretty much everything. I especially think BYU has a recruiting advantage compared to other WCC schools in many sports (for example, both the men's and women's cross country teams have been good for quite a while, as has the women's soccer team, etc.). For the walk-on issue specifically, I think that BYU's extremely affordable tuition and the relatively low cost of living in Provo make walking on more palatable for many.

[WCvb1]

Sept 9, 2020 21:14:26 GMT -5 mintonetteman said:

Sept 9, 2020 19:26:51 GMT -5 charger0304 said:

This thread sure took a turn...

In any case I think it was well acknowledged that 2020 would be a rebuilding year for BYU, especially once Gneiting decided to go on her mission. The impact of Robinson’s transfer is still up in the air.

Olmstead and staff are unapologetic about BYU’s LDS status. They moved on without hesitation when a top 2022 wasn’t sure she was interested because of the Church affiliation.

I think it is a good idea, once you have a good handle on the LDS pool of vb athletes to reach out to some of the best non-LDS athletes.  The better your program, the better chance you will land some excellent non-LDS talent who are a good fit in the culture of BYU.  Absolutely don't apologize for the teachings and culture at the Y.  The way society is headed right now, the more appealing BYU is to even non LDS people who want good values mirrored on campus, a school that doesn't change its stance with the wind, and tons of exposure in the media.  My husband says that BYU has a few coaches who transcend the profession and really bring a different level of enthusiasm and expertise to their sports .... and he says it is their personalities that sets them apart.  They get LDS and non-LDS to buy into their concepts and bring teams to national relevance. 

[WCvb1]

Sept 12, 2020 11:32:35 GMT -5 bbg95 said:

Sept 12, 2020 9:35:03 GMT -5 atticus said:

Recruiting to BYU is both harder and easier than at non-church schools. There are a lot of LDS kids who want to go there so badly they’re willing to turn down scholarship offers at other great programs just to walk on at BYU. LHE is a great example. I think they often can get much better walk ons than other schools and sometimes they pan out to be quite good. At other times they may not end up playing much but they push the practice gym to be tougher. Some of the people you’ve mentioned who you don’t think belong in the gym are likely walk ons and aren’t taking up scholarships. Most coaches of course don’t talk about who is a walk-on or what people’s scholarship terms. It’s like discussing someone’s salary.
Yeah being a church school w/ a strict honor code narrows the recruiting pool significantly. Having more focus isn’t always the worst thing though. And I think it’s true that more female athletes would tend to be ok with the honor code than male, but BYU football and men’s basketball programs also get plenty of recruits who aren’t LDS. Speaking of football, BYU is playing. So at least they’ve got a cash flow coming into their athletic dept which is more than most schools can say at the moment.

Agreed on pretty much everything. I especially think BYU has a recruiting advantage compared to other WCC schools in many sports (for example, both the men's and women's cross country teams have been good for quite a while, as has the women's soccer team, etc.). For the walk-on issue specifically, I think that BYU's extremely affordable tuition and the relatively low cost of living in Provo make walking on more palatable for many.

BYU does have a loyal following and they can get some good walk-ons.  I agree with you on those other programs being excellent examples of great leadership on the coaching level.  Throw in Mark Pope on your list.  Contagious, great attitude!  High expectations, aggressive recruiting and he scans the rosters of other colleges to find hidden gems.  

[WCvb1]

Sept 9, 2020 21:14:26 GMT -5 mintonetteman said:

Sept 9, 2020 19:26:51 GMT -5 charger0304 said:

This thread sure took a turn...

In any case I think it was well acknowledged that 2020 would be a rebuilding year for BYU, especially once Gneiting decided to go on her mission. The impact of Robinson’s transfer is still up in the air.

Olmstead and staff are unapologetic about BYU’s LDS status. They moved on without hesitation when a top 2022 wasn’t sure she was interested because of the Church affiliation.

I think it will be interesting to see what impact Robinson has at the U of U.  To me, she has a live arm and good athletic ability.  But she was always a tweener, a hybrid.  Not tall enough to get to the elite level of a hitter and struggled at blocking size at the Opp position.  She could pass, but the better the competition the more she struggled on the back row.  That fact lulled Olmstead into thinking Maddie could play as a starter because against 85% of the schedule she could perform well.  Again it goes back to upside.  Where is Maddie's upside?  IMO it isn't at a level of a top 32 team.  BYU just needs to make a rule that if you are legitimately below 6ft you shouldn't be recruited to BYU as a hitter.  6ft is the limit.  That would save scholly's on this current team as several players fall into that category.  I don't think Maddie was that into school either and that is a problem at BYU.  (not Utah)  It was a good transfer for all parties.  Maddie won't be eligible until next season and if Utah inserts her into their starting line up ..... that will be good for BYU.  In my mind, she is a sand player!  Could be really good on the sand.

[Deleted]

Sept 12, 2020 12:05:23 GMT -5 WCvb1 said:

Sept 9, 2020 21:14:26 GMT -5 mintonetteman said:

I think it will be interesting to see what impact Robinson has at the U of U.  To me, she has a live arm and good athletic ability.  But she was always a tweener, a hybrid.  Not tall enough to get to the elite level of a hitter and struggled at blocking size at the Opp position.  She could pass, but the better the competition the more she struggled on the back row.  That fact lulled Olmstead into thinking Maddie could play as a starter because against 85% of the schedule she could perform well.  Again it goes back to upside.  Where is Maddie's upside?  IMO it isn't at a level of a top 32 team.  BYU just needs to make a rule that if you are legitimately below 6ft you shouldn't be recruited to BYU as a hitter.  6ft is the limit.  That would save scholly's on this current team as several players fall into that category.  I don't think Maddie was that into school either and that is a problem at BYU.  (not Utah)  It was a good transfer for all parties.  Maddie won't be eligible until next season and if Utah inserts her into their starting line up ..... that will be good for BYU.  In my mind, she is a sand player!  Could be really good on the sand.

why do you feel the need to tear down every player on the BYU roster

[Brutus Buckeye]

I remember when Northwestern FB coach Randy Walker (RIP) was asked about the difficulty of recruiting to Northwestern. He said that it was actually a lot easier. The academic requirements narrow the field of potential recruits to one that is quite manageable right from the get go. They just focus all of their efforts on that particular pool of players, and they don't have to waste any of their time watching film on anybody else.

Similar concept at the Y.

[silverchloride]

Sept 12, 2020 12:05:23 GMT -5 WCvb1 said:

Sept 9, 2020 21:14:26 GMT -5 mintonetteman said:

I think it will be interesting to see what impact Robinson has at the U of U.  To me, she has a live arm and good athletic ability.  But she was always a tweener, a hybrid.  Not tall enough to get to the elite level of a hitter and struggled at blocking size at the Opp position.  She could pass, but the better the competition the more she struggled on the back row.  That fact lulled Olmstead into thinking Maddie could play as a starter because against 85% of the schedule she could perform well.  Again it goes back to upside.  Where is Maddie's upside?  IMO it isn't at a level of a top 32 team.  BYU just needs to make a rule that if you are legitimately below 6ft you shouldn't be recruited to BYU as a hitter.  6ft is the limit.  That would save scholly's on this current team as several players fall into that category.  I don't think Maddie was that into school either and that is a problem at BYU.  (not Utah)  It was a good transfer for all parties.  Maddie won't be eligible until next season and if Utah inserts her into their starting line up ..... that will be good for BYU.  In my mind, she is a sand player!  Could be really good on the sand.

Brooke Van Sickle

[silverchloride]

Sept 12, 2020 11:32:35 GMT -5 bbg95 said:

Sept 12, 2020 9:35:03 GMT -5 atticus said:

Agreed on pretty much everything. I especially think BYU has a recruiting advantage compared to other WCC schools in many sports (for example, both the men's and women's cross country teams have been good for quite a while, as has the women's soccer team, etc.). For the walk-on issue specifically, I think that BYU's extremely affordable tuition and the relatively low cost of living in Provo make walking on more palatable for many.

This