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Post by n00b on Sept 12, 2020 15:59:45 GMT -5
I remember when Northwestern FB coach Randy Walker (RIP) was asked about the difficulty of recruiting to Northwestern. He said that it was actually a lot easier. The academic requirements narrow the field of potential recruits to one that is quite manageable right from the get go. They just focus all of their efforts on that particular pool of players, and they don't have to waste any of their time watching film on anybody else. Similar concept at the Y. I guess it depends on what you're trying to do. He had one good year (8-4 his second season, so probably not many of his recruits), but overall was 24-32 in Big Ten play. I guess it's easy to get somebody to come play football for you, but he wasn't really able to get kids who were good enough to win in the Big Ten. That being said, I think volleyball is a completely different beast. I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that the Top 100 senior volleyball recruits take way more AP classes than the top 100 senior football recruits. |
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Post by WCvb1 on Sept 12, 2020 22:09:19 GMT -5
I think it will be interesting to see what impact Robinson has at the U of U. To me, she has a live arm and good athletic ability. But she was always a tweener, a hybrid. Not tall enough to get to the elite level of a hitter and struggled at blocking size at the Opp position. She could pass, but the better the competition the more she struggled on the back row. That fact lulled Olmstead into thinking Maddie could play as a starter because against 85% of the schedule she could perform well. Again it goes back to upside. Where is Maddie's upside? IMO it isn't at a level of a top 32 team. BYU just needs to make a rule that if you are legitimately below 6ft you shouldn't be recruited to BYU as a hitter. 6ft is the limit. That would save scholly's on this current team as several players fall into that category. I don't think Maddie was that into school either and that is a problem at BYU. (not Utah) It was a good transfer for all parties. Maddie won't be eligible until next season and if Utah inserts her into their starting line up ..... that will be good for BYU. In my mind, she is a sand player! Could be really good on the sand. why do you feel the need to tear down every player on the BYU roster Seriously? Maddie isn't on the BYU roster. Are you saying that we aren't allowed to evaluate players? I have said that Maddie is probably a really good beach player, but not an indoor elite OH or back row player. Not a tear down. I mentioned that 2 setters last year didn't have the right skill set to run a high level 5-1 for BYU. H Olmstead obviously feels the same way. I did say they could run a 6-2 with their skills. Is that a tear down? I have mentioned 5 players on a roster that has more than 3 times that many on it. If I said Mary Lake wasn't even in the top 10 hitters on the BYU roster you would be offended and it would be a tear down. Every recruit can and should be evaluated as to their strength's and weaknesses. Sorry if you think weaknesses are tear downs. Realistically staffs and coaches have to evaluate talent all the time. |
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Post by WCvb1 on Sept 12, 2020 22:14:43 GMT -5
I think it will be interesting to see what impact Robinson has at the U of U. To me, she has a live arm and good athletic ability. But she was always a tweener, a hybrid. Not tall enough to get to the elite level of a hitter and struggled at blocking size at the Opp position. She could pass, but the better the competition the more she struggled on the back row. That fact lulled Olmstead into thinking Maddie could play as a starter because against 85% of the schedule she could perform well. Again it goes back to upside. Where is Maddie's upside? IMO it isn't at a level of a top 32 team. BYU just needs to make a rule that if you are legitimately below 6ft you shouldn't be recruited to BYU as a hitter. 6ft is the limit. That would save scholly's on this current team as several players fall into that category. I don't think Maddie was that into school either and that is a problem at BYU. (not Utah) It was a good transfer for all parties. Maddie won't be eligible until next season and if Utah inserts her into their starting line up ..... that will be good for BYU. In my mind, she is a sand player! Could be really good on the sand. Brooke Van Sickle Great analogy |
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Post by mintonetteman on Sept 14, 2020 15:34:09 GMT -5
There is also an interesting recruiting factor at BYU. Parents who may want their kid to go to BYU and the actual kid, for what ever reason, that doesn't want to be at BYU. In many ways, those BYU student athletes have the worst experience. Kind of like the LDS parents that push their kids to go on LDS mission, but where the kid really doesn't really want to be there. That always ends bad. BYU doesn't change bad attitude kids...often times it only makes it worse. The idea that BYU should simply offer ever talented LDS kid makes zero sense and would be a disaster. You have to find kids that fit your particular team culture, that fit your coaching approach, that fit well with your existing players and in BYU's case--that fit your unique university culture. That is not easy. Not every Utah girl is going to fit that mold regardless of what outside perception might be. And, if BYU ever doesn't offer that kid--watch out, you will get blasted ala WCvb1.
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Post by Riviera Minestrone on Sept 14, 2020 16:49:07 GMT -5
There is also an interesting recruiting factor at BYU. Parents who may want their kid to go to BYU and the actual kid, for what ever reason, that doesn't want to be at BYU. In many ways, those BYU student athletes have the worst experience. Kind of like the LDS parents that push their kids to go on LDS mission, but where the kid really doesn't really want to be there. That always ends bad. BYU doesn't change bad attitude kids...often times it only makes it worse. The idea that BYU should simply offer ever talented LDS kid makes zero sense and would be a disaster. You have to find kids that fit your particular team culture, that fit your coaching approach, that fit well with your existing players and in BYU's case--that fit your unique university culture. That is not easy. Not every Utah girl is going to fit that mold regardless of what outside perception might be. And, if BYU ever doesn't offer that kid--watch out, you will get blasted ala WCvb1. Having followed the Cougars, from far afar, since my teens...plus having been in Utah a number of times...I fully concur that a one-size-fits-all overview won't work; all my preconceptions about UT were blown away in meeting so many different types of folks...from an LDS bishop, to SLC alternative types. Stereotypes do not fit! |
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Post by bbg95 on Sept 14, 2020 17:29:41 GMT -5
There is also an interesting recruiting factor at BYU. Parents who may want their kid to go to BYU and the actual kid, for what ever reason, that doesn't want to be at BYU. In many ways, those BYU student athletes have the worst experience. Kind of like the LDS parents that push their kids to go on LDS mission, but where the kid really doesn't really want to be there. That always ends bad. BYU doesn't change bad attitude kids...often times it only makes it worse. The idea that BYU should simply offer ever talented LDS kid makes zero sense and would be a disaster. You have to find kids that fit your particular team culture, that fit your coaching approach, that fit well with your existing players and in BYU's case--that fit your unique university culture. That is not easy. Not every Utah girl is going to fit that mold regardless of what outside perception might be. And, if BYU ever doesn't offer that kid--watch out, you will get blasted ala WCvb1. Having followed the Cougars, from far afar, since my teens...plus having been in Utah a number of times...I fully concur that a one-size-fits-all overview won't work; all my preconceptions about UT were blown away in meeting so many different types of folks...from an LDS bishop, to SLC alternative types. Stereotypes do not fit! Yes, this is true. I remember my best friend from high school in New Mexico came to Utah for the first time to visit a few years ago, and he was surprised at how many different kinds of people there were in Utah and even just among BYU students. He said he thought everyone would be wearing suits, lol. |
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Post by WCvb1 on Sept 14, 2020 22:22:25 GMT -5
Having followed the Cougars, from far afar, since my teens...plus having been in Utah a number of times...I fully concur that a one-size-fits-all overview won't work; all my preconceptions about UT were blown away in meeting so many different types of folks...from an LDS bishop, to SLC alternative types. Stereotypes do not fit! Yes, this is true. I remember my best friend from high school in New Mexico came to Utah for the first time to visit a few years ago, and he was surprised at how many different kinds of people there were in Utah and even just among BYU students. He said he thought everyone would be wearing suits, lol. mintonettman, most understand what you say about parents pushing kids into BYU. Usually those kids who don't meet the requirements fail in a variety of ways that don't have anything to do with the parents. Things like the ecclesiastical interviews, seminary graduation, social media issues, phone chats, zoom meetings, texting, and in person visits. But, even if the kid miraculously fakes their way through those hurdles then they will wash out after a year or so because their parents weren't riding herd on them at the Y. You seem to be trying to give wiggle room to H Olmstead for passing on the girl that started this conversation. Remember that if the Jardine girl didn't pass all of the above mentioned hurdles and she was in the camp you described, of her parents pushing her to BYU despite, (not being a BYU type kid) why would Heather have asked her to walk on? Hmmm?? Landing in a better vb program with coaches who have more highly recruited athletes than BYU has, shows you that Wisc felt that Jardine is a big time player with potential upside to play for a national championship caliber program. If you are trying to make this an issue where the kid just might not be an athlete who is going to make it at BYU for non vb reasons, so Heather didn't offer a scholarship .... I am not going to go for that. Bottom line is talent and recruiting and offering kids scholarships who are top 150 ranked vb athletes (given that all the other factors that BYU requires are meant). To even attempt to make the "parents push their kid" argument stick to Jardine makes no sense at all. Take off your blue glasses. |
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Post by WCvb1 on Sept 14, 2020 22:30:35 GMT -5
I remember when Northwestern FB coach Randy Walker (RIP) was asked about the difficulty of recruiting to Northwestern. He said that it was actually a lot easier. The academic requirements narrow the field of potential recruits to one that is quite manageable right from the get go. They just focus all of their efforts on that particular pool of players, and they don't have to waste any of their time watching film on anybody else. Similar concept at the Y. I guess it depends on what you're trying to do. He had one good year (8-4 his second season, so probably not many of his recruits), but overall was 24-32 in Big Ten play. I guess it's easy to get somebody to come play football for you, but he wasn't really able to get kids who were good enough to win in the Big Ten. That being said, I think volleyball is a completely different beast. I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that the Top 100 senior volleyball recruits take way more AP classes than the top 100 senior football recruits. That is a very good observation! |
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Post by mintonetteman on Sept 15, 2020 14:59:59 GMT -5
Yes, this is true. I remember my best friend from high school in New Mexico came to Utah for the first time to visit a few years ago, and he was surprised at how many different kinds of people there were in Utah and even just among BYU students. He said he thought everyone would be wearing suits, lol. mintonettman, most understand what you say about parents pushing kids into BYU. Usually those kids who don't meet the requirements fail in a variety of ways that don't have anything to do with the parents. Things like the ecclesiastical interviews, seminary graduation, social media issues, phone chats, zoom meetings, texting, and in person visits. But, even if the kid miraculously fakes their way through those hurdles then they will wash out after a year or so because their parents weren't riding herd on them at the Y. You seem to be trying to give wiggle room to H Olmstead for passing on the girl that started this conversation. Remember that if the Jardine girl didn't pass all of the above mentioned hurdles and she was in the camp you described, of her parents pushing her to BYU despite, (not being a BYU type kid) why would Heather have asked her to walk on? Hmmm?? Landing in a better vb program with coaches who have more highly recruited athletes than BYU has, shows you that Wisc felt that Jardine is a big time player with potential upside to play for a national championship caliber program. If you are trying to make this an issue where the kid just might not be an athlete who is going to make it at BYU for non vb reasons, so Heather didn't offer a scholarship .... I am not going to go for that. Bottom line is talent and recruiting and offering kids scholarships who are top 150 ranked vb athletes (given that all the other factors that BYU requires are meant). To even attempt to make the "parents push their kid" argument stick to Jardine makes no sense at all. Take off your blue glasses. Because she knew that she would say "no" -- I think it is interesting how you praise S. Olmstead for his recruiting when H. Olmstead was his recruiting coordinator. I think Wisc taking a flyer on a kid late in the process doesn't mean anything. They just didn't do their homework and didn't know Jardine the way that BYU did. After all, I believe her sister player for BYU -- no one knew this kid better than BYU and they took a flyer. Hmmm...what does that mean. Take off your parent glasses. |
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Post by bbg95 on Sept 15, 2020 16:23:59 GMT -5
mintonettman, most understand what you say about parents pushing kids into BYU. Usually those kids who don't meet the requirements fail in a variety of ways that don't have anything to do with the parents. Things like the ecclesiastical interviews, seminary graduation, social media issues, phone chats, zoom meetings, texting, and in person visits. But, even if the kid miraculously fakes their way through those hurdles then they will wash out after a year or so because their parents weren't riding herd on them at the Y. You seem to be trying to give wiggle room to H Olmstead for passing on the girl that started this conversation. Remember that if the Jardine girl didn't pass all of the above mentioned hurdles and she was in the camp you described, of her parents pushing her to BYU despite, (not being a BYU type kid) why would Heather have asked her to walk on? Hmmm?? Landing in a better vb program with coaches who have more highly recruited athletes than BYU has, shows you that Wisc felt that Jardine is a big time player with potential upside to play for a national championship caliber program. If you are trying to make this an issue where the kid just might not be an athlete who is going to make it at BYU for non vb reasons, so Heather didn't offer a scholarship .... I am not going to go for that. Bottom line is talent and recruiting and offering kids scholarships who are top 150 ranked vb athletes (given that all the other factors that BYU requires are meant). To even attempt to make the "parents push their kid" argument stick to Jardine makes no sense at all. Take off your blue glasses. Because she knew that she would say "no" -- I think it is interesting how you praise S. Olmstead for his recruiting when H. Olmstead was his recruiting coordinator. I think Wisc taking a flyer on a kid late in the process doesn't mean anything. They just didn't do their homework and didn't know Jardine the way that BYU did. After all, I believe her sister player for BYU -- no one knew this kid better than BYU and they took a flyer. Hmmm...what does that mean. Take off your parent glasses. Yeah, I particularly agree with this. I know that Roni Jones-Perry has said that Heather was the one who primarily recruited her, for example. |
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Post by c4ndlelight on Sept 15, 2020 17:01:07 GMT -5
Guys, she has a higher career winning % than Russ Rose and the 2nd Round loss is the only time in her career her team didn't make the Sweet 16.
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Post by bbg95 on Sept 15, 2020 17:05:24 GMT -5
Guys, she has a higher career winning % than Russ Rose and the 2nd Round loss is the only time in her career her team didn't make the Sweet 16. I agree with you, but I think there's really only one poster on this thread who's really being critical of Heather Olmstead. I think she's a great coach. |
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Post by mintonetteman on Sept 15, 2020 17:30:09 GMT -5
Pretty easy to forget the volleyball situation at BYU before Shawn Olmstead became head coach. The three years before he was HC BYU went 14-16 (2010), 15-14 (2009) and 14-12 (2008). Utah was clearly the better volleyball team during this stretch (with Colorado State). And, the assistant coach and recruiting coordinator during that time at Utah was... H. Olmstead. Hmmm what does that tell you. S. Olmstead is a great coach BUT getting his sister to come to BYU from Utah was, IMO, a game changer for BYU women's volleyball. IMO, short of Carl and Elaine, the Olmsteads have done more for BYU volleyball than anyone. She is 144-18 and wins 90% of her games...and we think she can't evaluate talent anymore because she didn't offer one kid whose parent seems to be upset. No way, IMO, its just the opposite. No one has done a better job of evaluating talent and then developing talent at BYU better than H. Olmstead. RJP, both Haddock sisters, Whitney Howard and Alexa Gray ... even Mary Lake, are all good examples of identifying kids outside the BYU norm and developing them into big time players. I can't believe I even have to write this.
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Post by c4ndlelight on Sept 15, 2020 17:31:32 GMT -5
Guys, she has a higher career winning % than Russ Rose and the 2nd Round loss is the only time in her career her team didn't make the Sweet 16. I agree with you, but I think there's really only one poster on this thread who's really being critical of Heather Olmstead. I think she's a great coach. You're right, it is just the one. Funny how a voice can seem amplified on a message board. |
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BYU 2020
Sept 15, 2020 18:23:22 GMT -5
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Post by wishinwestcoastvb on Sept 15, 2020 18:23:22 GMT -5
I also recall the poster saying BYU should not recruit hitters under 6 FT. RJP was 6 Ft only on a very very good day. Guess she shouldn’t have been recruited by BYU. Shame on them.
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