trojansc
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Post by trojansc on Sept 14, 2021 15:04:32 GMT -5
It's curious that Texas can be number one on Thursday, win 3 straight matches, remain undefeated, and somehow get dropped in the polls. It's a good thing (in my opinion) to not 'hold' places week to week, particularly early in the season. If a team is a clear #1 team throughout the first 10 weeks of the season and goes 5 with Sam Houston State in week 11, OK, at that point, as long as they win, they should in all likeliness stay at #1. They've earned it throughout the season. Notre Dame scraped by Florida State (Who lost to Jax State) in football and were in jeopardy of losing a game to Toledo in the last minute. They subsequently dropped in the polls, this is a good thing. The ultimate goal is to win - but ranking teams who have the same record is complicated, and with little data, it is easily justifiable to drop teams. Even the #1. It's also bad logic that saying the #1 team you rank in preseason/week 1 is the best team in the country and nobody else can be better until they lose. Particularly when you account for strength of schedule and margin of victory.
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Post by ay2013 on Sept 14, 2021 15:22:59 GMT -5
It's curious that Texas can be number one on Thursday, win 3 straight matches, remain undefeated, and somehow get dropped in the polls. It's a good thing (in my opinion) to not 'hold' places week to week, particularly early in the season. If a team is a clear #1 team throughout the first 10 weeks of the season and goes 5 with Sam Houston State in week 11, OK, at that point, as long as they win, they should in all likeliness stay at #1. They've earned it throughout the season. Notre Dame scraped by Florida State (Who lost to Jax State) in football and were in jeopardy of losing a game to Toledo in the last minute. They subsequently dropped in the polls, this is a good thing. The ultimate goal is to win - but ranking teams who have the same record is complicated, and with little data, it is easily justifiable to drop teams. Even the #1. It's also bad logic that saying the #1 team you rank in preseason/week 1 is the best team in the country and nobody else can be better until they lose. Particularly when you account for strength of schedule and margin of victory. đź’Ż
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bluepenquin
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Post by bluepenquin on Sept 14, 2021 16:23:32 GMT -5
It's curious that Texas can be number one on Thursday, win 3 straight matches, remain undefeated, and somehow get dropped in the polls. It's a good thing (in my opinion) to not 'hold' places week to week, particularly early in the season. If a team is a clear #1 team throughout the first 10 weeks of the season and goes 5 with Sam Houston State in week 11, OK, at that point, as long as they win, they should in all likeliness stay at #1. They've earned it throughout the season. Notre Dame scraped by Florida State (Who lost to Jax State) in football and were in jeopardy of losing a game to Toledo in the last minute. They subsequently dropped in the polls, this is a good thing. The ultimate goal is to win - but ranking teams who have the same record is complicated, and with little data, it is easily justifiable to drop teams. Even the #1. It's also bad logic that saying the #1 team you rank in preseason/week 1 is the best team in the country and nobody else can be better until they lose. Particularly when you account for strength of schedule and margin of victory. I would go a step farther and say that one should never 'hold' a place at any point during the year. In theory - a team could win both matches in a week - and looked great doing it - and still drop in the polls. I believe each week should be evaluated Independent of previous polls/ballot - as the context of everything they did in the previous weeks can change. Great wins in week 3 may look like an okay win in week 6, etc... You see this happen all the time in the BCS rankings - which is the one ranking that actually holds great significance.
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Post by baytree on Sept 14, 2021 16:32:32 GMT -5
I agree with all of the above. I don't understand why ppl want the pollsters to ignore data. As we get more relevant information, we should incorporate as much of that as possible into our rankings. To say that for a top team we should ignore everything but a loss doesn't make sense to me at all.
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Post by bbg95 on Sept 14, 2021 16:47:18 GMT -5
It's a good thing (in my opinion) to not 'hold' places week to week, particularly early in the season. If a team is a clear #1 team throughout the first 10 weeks of the season and goes 5 with Sam Houston State in week 11, OK, at that point, as long as they win, they should in all likeliness stay at #1. They've earned it throughout the season. Notre Dame scraped by Florida State (Who lost to Jax State) in football and were in jeopardy of losing a game to Toledo in the last minute. They subsequently dropped in the polls, this is a good thing. The ultimate goal is to win - but ranking teams who have the same record is complicated, and with little data, it is easily justifiable to drop teams. Even the #1. It's also bad logic that saying the #1 team you rank in preseason/week 1 is the best team in the country and nobody else can be better until they lose. Particularly when you account for strength of schedule and margin of victory. I would go a step farther and say that one should never 'hold' a place at any point during the year. In theory - a team could win both matches in a week - and looked great doing it - and still drop in the polls. I believe each week should be evaluated Independent of previous polls/ballot - as the context of everything they did in the previous weeks can change. Great wins in week 3 may look like an okay win in week 6, etc... You see this happen all the time in the BCS rankings - which is the one ranking that actually holds great significance. The CFP rankings? I think in theory, the AP can still vote for a different champion (which they correctly did in 2003 for USC), but with the playoff now, it's almost impossible to imagine a scenario where the best team in the country (from the AP's view) gets left out of even a four-team playoff.
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trojansc
Legend
All-VolleyTalk 1st Team (2022, 2021, 2020, 2019, 2018, 2017), All-VolleyTalk 2nd Team (2016), 2021, 2019 Fantasy League Champion, 2020 Fantasy League Runner Up, 2022 2nd Runner Up
Posts: 28,365
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Post by trojansc on Sept 14, 2021 17:00:24 GMT -5
I would go a step farther and say that one should never 'hold' a place at any point during the year. In theory - a team could win both matches in a week - and looked great doing it - and still drop in the polls. I believe each week should be evaluated Independent of previous polls/ballot - as the context of everything they did in the previous weeks can change. Great wins in week 3 may look like an okay win in week 6, etc... You see this happen all the time in the BCS rankings - which is the one ranking that actually holds great significance. The CFP rankings? I think in theory, the AP can still vote for a different champion (which they correctly did in 2003 for USC), but with the playoff now, it's almost impossible to imagine a scenario where the best team in the country (from the AP's view) gets left out of even a four-team playoff. I still question the integrity of the CFP rankings. Florida lost to a 3-5 LSU team at home and dropped a single spot in the rankings from #6 to #7 towards the end of last year.
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Post by bbg95 on Sept 14, 2021 17:07:17 GMT -5
The CFP rankings? I think in theory, the AP can still vote for a different champion (which they correctly did in 2003 for USC), but with the playoff now, it's almost impossible to imagine a scenario where the best team in the country (from the AP's view) gets left out of even a four-team playoff. I still question the integrity of the CFP rankings. Florida lost to a 3-5 LSU team at home and dropped a single spot in the rankings from #6 to #7 towards the end of last year. I'm definitely not saying the CFP rankings are perfect, but it's still a lot better than the BCS was. Expanding the playoff will help further. The problem in 2003 was that the No. 1 team in both polls was left out of the BCS Championship Game. I doubt the No. 1 team in the polls would get left out of the playoff.
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bluepenquin
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4-Time VolleyTalk Poster of the Year (2019, 2018, 2017, 2016), All-VolleyTalk 1st Team (2021, 2020, 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016)
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Post by bluepenquin on Sept 14, 2021 17:48:41 GMT -5
I still question the integrity of the CFP rankings. Florida lost to a 3-5 LSU team at home and dropped a single spot in the rankings from #6 to #7 towards the end of last year. I'm definitely not saying the CFP rankings are perfect, but it's still a lot better than the BCS was. Expanding the playoff will help further. The problem in 2003 was that the No. 1 team in both polls was left out of the BCS Championship Game. I doubt the No. 1 team in the polls would get left out of the playoff. Yes - I meant the CFP, I am behind the times and couldn't remember the BCS rankings. If I remember - the BCS was a joke in that it was computer generated systems with # of losses and human polls. I could be misrembering? The current CFP, I think is good (although I don't follow closely). They are analyzing in detail the entire season for each team and looking at movements from the last poll based on this weeks game.
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Post by slxpress on Sept 14, 2021 17:48:49 GMT -5
I agree with all of the above. I don't understand why ppl want the pollsters to ignore data. As we get more relevant information, we should incorporate as much of that as possible into our rankings. To say that for a top team we should ignore everything but a loss doesn't make sense to me at all. Well, to be fair, several of the people saying Texas should still be ranked #1 are fans of Texas. I just feel like it's all going to play out. The polls are for discussion purposes. Especially the volleytalk polls. People aren't being capricious with their rankings. They're putting a lot of thought into it. And then many of the voters on volleytalk are posting their rankings. I don't know what more anyone on this board could ask for.
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Post by bbg95 on Sept 14, 2021 17:54:17 GMT -5
I'm definitely not saying the CFP rankings are perfect, but it's still a lot better than the BCS was. Expanding the playoff will help further. The problem in 2003 was that the No. 1 team in both polls was left out of the BCS Championship Game. I doubt the No. 1 team in the polls would get left out of the playoff. Yes - I meant the CFP, I am behind the times and couldn't remember the BCS rankings. If I remember - the BCS was a joke in that it was computer generated systems with # of losses and human polls. I could be misrembering? The current CFP, I think is good (although I don't follow closely). They are analyzing in detail the entire season for each team and looking at movements from the last poll based on this weeks game. The BCS was a joke, and it seemingly changed every year to fix the issues with the previous season but would introduce new issues. There were numerous controversies, usually revolving around the second and third-place teams. The absolute nadir was 2003 when No. 1 USC was left out of the title game, and we got a split title, which was the one thing the BCS was supposed to prevent (it was adopted after the 1997 split national championship caused by the Rose Bowl not participating). The only reason LSU even got its half of the title was because the coaches were contractually obligated to vote for the winner of the BCS title game. But yeah, the polls, some computers (which were tweaked depending on the most recent debacle) and losses were all considered.
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Post by Fight On! on Sept 14, 2021 19:40:28 GMT -5
Pisses me off? LOL. It's expected from you, honestly. Trust me. Anyway, how significant differences should there be for it to be a better poll? That kind of logic confuses me. i.e If 5 teams aren't differentiated by 5 or more spots, is that the difference maker for you? actually - to #2, we can ask vballfan17 what he thinks about that, since he goes through literally every AVCA poll and sees ours. Even in football - I'm pretty sure Arizona was a 'mistake' vote in the poll as they haven't won a game in... god knows how many matches. I doubt someone confuses Arizona and Arizona State in the VT poll, while this has happened in the AVCA, like San Diego/UC San Diego, etc. But if anyone knows, he would! That's not a bad rule of thumb for significantly different.  The logic is that if there is not much in the way of significant differences, you are essentially looking at the same polls. Also significantly different doesn't tell you which poll is better.  It is just means they are different with "better" being a subjective opinion. That the VT poll outperforms AVCQ in PTW seems to be good evidence that is better.
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Post by five to five on Sept 14, 2021 21:07:46 GMT -5
Confused by the lack of appreciation for North Carolina 8-0 with win over Michigan. Unfortunate the other teams on their schedule have not panned out so well (High Pont, SFA, Colorado St, Michigan St, East Carolina) Roster with transfers Amanda Phegley, Nia Robinson, Megan Neelon; freshman Kaya Merkler and Mabrey Shaffmaster, Hitting 100points above their opponents, outblocking them 2.4 to 1.7/set I'll keep voting for them until they lose to make sure they get at least one vote weekly same goes for Ole Miss. Also 8-0, with a win on the road vs #15 Western Kentucky. Also a statistical juggernaut compared to opponents and compared to the rest of their conference's numbers so far. Like the Tar Heels, their pre-season opponents also haven't fared well so far, though theirs didn't have as high of a ceiling as the Tar Heels' opponents before matches started being played (Troy, UTSA, Samford... Coastal Carolina is doing as well as expected). They have Indiana this weekend, then start their SEC schedule with 3 matches vs Kentucky (x1) and Florida (x2) in 5 days in their second week of conference play so we'll get a better idea where they're truly at then..
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Post by diggerdive on Sept 24, 2021 21:53:48 GMT -5
Texas should be concerned they're getting pushed by/losing sets to Arizona and Notre Dame. Not about Wisconsin or their ranking Reminders of what happened in Week 2 with Arizona and Notre Dame: Arizona: lost to UTEP 3-2, beat Northwestern 3-2, beat New Mexico State 3-2. Notre Dame hosted the tournament: Lost to Bowling Green 0-3, lost to Cincinnati 1-3, lost to Milwaukee 1-3. Huh. So Maryland beat Wisconsin. W o w. Did not see that coming. Did you know that Maryland is the 9th smallest state? But that doesn’t mean they don’t have spirit and fight! Wow. Maryland. Huh. That’s really something isn’t it. They are ahead of Binghamton in the RPI - for whatever that’s worth - it’s still so early. But listed at 285: was a lot of down scrolling - strained my finger. Oh well. Ya know what. The season is early! And even Texas got pushed around by Arizona and Norte Dame - (didn’t lose though). But Wisconsin will learn from this and bounce right back.
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Post by dl3ww on Sept 24, 2021 22:22:51 GMT -5
Next week can Texas stay at #2 on the VT poll? I don’t want them to get whatever y’all be putting in the #1 vote🤧 I volunteer Louisville as a tribute to #1!
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Post by hammer on Sept 24, 2021 23:33:47 GMT -5
Well, this poll will need to be rebuilt after a night when ...
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