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Post by stevehorn on Apr 3, 2023 13:50:18 GMT -5
Respect is earned. How is the NIVC going to earn more respect? and just how did the NIT "earn more respect"? IIRC the NIT is actually older than the men's NCAA basketball championship. In the early days of both, it wasn't uncommon for a school to play in the NIT (Madison Square Garden) rather than the NCAA and I think occasionally a school would play in both. This was the time when the typical field for each tournament was 8 IIRC. Once the NCAA mandated that conference champions play in the NCAA tournament and was still restricted to conference champions, the NIT retained a strong field with the non-conference champion teams from the top basketball conferences. Even when the NCAA allowed runner-ups in the tournament, the NIT still retained a strong field with many teams that today would be in the tournament. Now once the NCAA tournament expanded to 64, the quality of the NIT field dropped significantly. The history of the NIT gives it "more respect" IMO and also allows it to draw more fans than a similar tournment in other sports. The women's NIT probably piggybacks off the men's NIT in terms of exposure. |
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Post by jayj79 on Apr 3, 2023 14:25:01 GMT -5
The history of the NIT gives it "more respect" IMO and also allows it to draw more fans than a similar tournment in other sports. The women's NIT probably piggybacks off the men's NIT in terms of exposure. so you're saying that the only way for a tournament to "earn respect" is to be old as balls? |
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Post by uofaGRAD on Apr 3, 2023 14:49:22 GMT -5
The history of the NIT gives it "more respect" IMO and also allows it to draw more fans than a similar tournment in other sports. The women's NIT probably piggybacks off the men's NIT in terms of exposure. so you're saying that the only way for a tournament to "earn respect" is to be old as balls? they have to do a better job of selling it to coaches and teams and why it's worth it to play. pretty much any P5 team that was a bubble team is going to say no because they're disappointed they did not make the tournament and look at the NIVC as a sh*tty consolation prize (as seen by them not being able to secure a single PAC team last season, and secured the actual last team in the ACC). I also really, really like the idea of having the championship in the same city as the final four on the day in between or day after. so like final four (for NIVC) wednesday and then championship friday, or final four friday and championship sunday. that way you have thousands of volleyball fans, coaches, and players in the area that are willing to go watch a lower ranked championship. |
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Post by stevehorn on Apr 3, 2023 15:01:06 GMT -5
The history of the NIT gives it "more respect" IMO and also allows it to draw more fans than a similar tournment in other sports. The women's NIT probably piggybacks off the men's NIT in terms of exposure. so you're saying that the only way for a tournament to "earn respect" is to be old as balls? That is not what I stated. You have this bad habit, illustrated multiple times in this thread, of not accurately reading the posts of others. You asked about why the NIT has more respect and I replied with my opinion why it does which primarily its longevity. However I never said this was the only way to earn respect. |
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Post by jayj79 on Apr 3, 2023 15:33:44 GMT -5
so you're saying that the only way for a tournament to "earn respect" is to be old as balls? That is not what I stated. You have this bad habit, illustrated multiple times in this thread, of not accurately reading the posts of others. You asked about why the NIT has more respect and I replied with my opinion why it does which primarily its longevity. However I never said this was the only way to earn respect. So give me an example of another way for a tournament to earn respect? |
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Post by stevehorn on Apr 3, 2023 15:43:50 GMT -5
so you're saying that the only way for a tournament to "earn respect" is to be old as balls? they have to do a better job of selling it to coaches and teams and why it's worth it to play. pretty much any P5 team that was a bubble team is going to say no because they're disappointed they did not make the tournament and look at the NIVC as a sh*tty consolation prize (as seen by them not being able to secure a single PAC team last season, and secured the actual last team in the ACC). I also really, really like the idea of having the championship in the same city as the final four on the day in between or day after. so like final four (for NIVC) wednesday and then championship friday, or final four friday and championship sunday. that way you have thousands of volleyball fans, coaches, and players in the area that are willing to go watch a lower ranked championship. The tournament existed for a few years in the 90s and then ceased to exist. The tournament has now existed again since 2017 and doesn't show any signs of momentum. My first question is whether HCs and athletic directors actually want this tournament or at least want it in the current format? Should volleyball continue to copy basketball with the NVIC or perhaps look to see if another format might be more popular? It appears that the drop-off from the top sixteen in VB to the rest of the field is much greater in VB than basketball, especially men's basketball. Instead of playing the current NIVC format, which mostly attracts teams that have marginal interest in VB, should VB consider two D1 championships much like FBS and FCS in football? Allow conferences to choose which championship to enter, but no automatic qualifiers in the top championship. So instead of having a second tournament that has been won all but once by at best a middle of the road P5 school, allow the conference champions and other top teams in the lower conferences to play a legit championship. |
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Post by stevehorn on Apr 3, 2023 15:46:10 GMT -5
That is not what I stated. You have this bad habit, illustrated multiple times in this thread, of not accurately reading the posts of others. You asked about why the NIT has more respect and I replied with my opinion why it does which primarily its longevity. However I never said this was the only way to earn respect. So give me an example of another way for a tournament to earn respect? Since you seem to love asking questions and generally bitching, but rarely contribute ideas, give your own example. |
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Post by jayj79 on Apr 3, 2023 16:04:45 GMT -5
So give me an example of another way for a tournament to earn respect? Since you seem to love asking questions and generally bitching, but rarely contribute ideas, give your own example. why would I ask the question if I already knew the answer? I'm not the one bitching about tournaments having to "earn" their right to exist. I've always said that if there are enough teams willing to participate and pay the costs, then those tourneys should by all means be held. |
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Post by stevehorn on Apr 3, 2023 16:11:29 GMT -5
Since you seem to love asking questions and generally bitching, but rarely contribute ideas, give your own example. why would I ask the question if I already knew the answer? I'm not the one bitching about tournaments having to "earn" their right to exist. I've always said that if there are enough teams willing to participate and pay the costs, then those tourneys should by all means be held. Making up answers once gain. The subject of respect was initiated by another poster and I responded to it. Where did I say tournaments have to "earn" their right to exist? Also typical that you won't contribute ideas, but continually want others to do that work for you. |
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Post by bluepenquin on Apr 3, 2023 16:27:03 GMT -5
You cannot compare KU in the NIT to any school in the NIVC... How many Power 5 schools with massive attendance ratings during the regular season even try to host in the NIVC? I just looked at the bracket and I do not see any. The most attendance KU WBB had at a home game all year was around 4k from what I could see. Also the WNIT is broadcasted and marketed way better than the NIVC. VB is bigger at KU than WBB. But KU really promoted this game - there was a push to sell out Allen Fieldhouse. Also - the time of year is a huge difference. Middle of December just isnt' going to get the same kind of campus support. Finally - the men's team got bounced in the 2nd round - which made this even more possible (I think). |
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Post by stevehorn on Apr 3, 2023 16:30:48 GMT -5
You cannot compare KU in the NIT to any school in the NIVC... How many Power 5 schools with massive attendance ratings during the regular season even try to host in the NIVC? I just looked at the bracket and I do not see any. The most attendance KU WBB had at a home game all year was around 4k from what I could see. Also the WNIT is broadcasted and marketed way better than the NIVC. VB is bigger at KU than WBB. But KU really promoted this game - there was a push to sell out Allen Fieldhouse. Also - the time of year is a huge difference. Middle of December just isnt' going to get the same kind of campus support. Finally - the men's team got bounced in the 2nd round - which made this even more possible (I think). Got to laugh as my first thought was the attendance wouldn't be close to 11K if the men's team was still in the tournament this weekend. |
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Apr 3, 2023 16:32:21 GMT -5
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Post by n00b on Apr 3, 2023 16:32:21 GMT -5
so you're saying that the only way for a tournament to "earn respect" is to be old as balls? they have to do a better job of selling it to coaches and teams and why it's worth it to play. pretty much any P5 team that was a bubble team is going to say no because they're disappointed they did not make the tournament and look at the NIVC as a sh*tty consolation prize (as seen by them not being able to secure a single PAC team last season, and secured the actual last team in the ACC). I also really, really like the idea of having the championship in the same city as the final four on the day in between or day after. so like final four (for NIVC) wednesday and then championship friday, or final four friday and championship sunday. that way you have thousands of volleyball fans, coaches, and players in the area that are willing to go watch a lower ranked championship. The Women’s NIT and the NIVC are run by exactly the same people (Triple Crown and Jared Rudiger). It’s not like the basketball and volleyball coaches are receiving different sales pitches. |
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Post by uofaGRAD on Apr 3, 2023 16:45:36 GMT -5
they have to do a better job of selling it to coaches and teams and why it's worth it to play. pretty much any P5 team that was a bubble team is going to say no because they're disappointed they did not make the tournament and look at the NIVC as a sh*tty consolation prize (as seen by them not being able to secure a single PAC team last season, and secured the actual last team in the ACC). I also really, really like the idea of having the championship in the same city as the final four on the day in between or day after. so like final four (for NIVC) wednesday and then championship friday, or final four friday and championship sunday. that way you have thousands of volleyball fans, coaches, and players in the area that are willing to go watch a lower ranked championship. The Women’s NIT and the NIVC are run by exactly the same people (Triple Crown and Jared Rudiger). It’s not like the basketball and volleyball coaches are receiving different sales pitches. they probably DO need to receive different sales pitches. one has a level of respect the other doesn't and one has been around a lot longer than the other. companies don't advertise new and old products the same way. even if that means shelling out more money for a couple years and covering more costs for the top teams that missed the tournament or something. or completely changing the format and making it something new and never-seen-before. I know someone a while back mentioned almost having the format be like a club tournament with pools and waves. that could be fun and a LOT less costly for each school considering everything would take place over a 3-4 day span instead of multiple weekends. plus, that means more general volleyball fans in the area. |
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Post by stevehorn on Apr 3, 2023 18:14:28 GMT -5
The Women’s NIT and the NIVC are run by exactly the same people (Triple Crown and Jared Rudiger). It’s not like the basketball and volleyball coaches are receiving different sales pitches. they probably DO need to receive different sales pitches. one has a level of respect the other doesn't and one has been around a lot longer than the other. companies don't advertise new and old products the same way. even if that means shelling out more money for a couple years and covering more costs for the top teams that missed the tournament or something. or completely changing the format and making it something new and never-seen-before. I know someone a while back mentioned almost having the format be like a club tournament with pools and waves. that could be fun and a LOT less costly for each school considering everything would take place over a 3-4 day span instead of multiple weekends. plus, that means more general volleyball fans in the area. I know one complaint I've read from some coaches/ADs is the timing when the players are either preparing for finals or taking finals. I'm assuming putting up with this for the NCAA tournament is more tolerable than for the NIVC. So your idea of playing all of the tournament in a 3-4 day timeframe could be more appealing in working around finals for many schools. |
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Post by uofaGRAD on Apr 3, 2023 18:42:21 GMT -5
they probably DO need to receive different sales pitches. one has a level of respect the other doesn't and one has been around a lot longer than the other. companies don't advertise new and old products the same way. even if that means shelling out more money for a couple years and covering more costs for the top teams that missed the tournament or something. or completely changing the format and making it something new and never-seen-before. I know someone a while back mentioned almost having the format be like a club tournament with pools and waves. that could be fun and a LOT less costly for each school considering everything would take place over a 3-4 day span instead of multiple weekends. plus, that means more general volleyball fans in the area. I know one complaint I've read from some coaches/ADs is the timing when the players are either preparing for finals or taking finals. I'm assuming putting up with this for the NCAA tournament is more tolerable than for the NIVC. So your idea of playing all of the tournament in a 3-4 day timeframe could be more appealing in working around finals for many schools. I imagine coaches and ADs would be more okay with it too knowing the teams will be playing like a minimum of 3 games instead of sending their team somewhere to play 1 |
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