2022 NIVC

[vbfamily]

Apr 3, 2023 18:42:21 GMT -5 uofaGRAD said:

Apr 3, 2023 18:14:28 GMT -5 stevehorn said:

I know one complaint I've read from some coaches/ADs is the timing when the players are either preparing for finals or taking finals.   I'm assuming putting up with this for the NCAA tournament is more tolerable than for the NIVC.   So your idea of playing all of the tournament in a 3-4 day timeframe could be more appealing in working around finals for many schools.

I imagine coaches and ADs would be more okay with it too knowing the teams will be playing like a minimum of 3 games instead of sending their team somewhere to play 1

This dates me, but in 1989 there was a postseason. Tournament called the WIVC (Women’s Invitational Volleyball Championship I assume), 16 teams iirc. Pools of 4, pool played over 2 days, one team advanced for a semi-final and then a final. Can’t remember if it was one or two days for the semi/final, but Wisconsin won that year. It is more matches than we play today, because up to 5 matches in 3 or 4 days, but it was one location, so costs to programs kept down as I assume schools paid. But I don’t remember many fans…

[kiyoat]

I just wanted to clarify something: the NIT and the WNIT are not affiliated with each other. The long history of the men’s NIT has zero correlation to the women’s WNIT, a much younger tournament. The WNIT copied the similar name, probably to create an association with the well-known NIT.

I’m not saying that to disparage the WNIT. I think it’s great. Let’s just stick to facts, and leave the NIT out of the discussion.

Speaking of facts, let’s also not compare one of the highest attended WNIT games with a poorly attended NIVC final. 11k is not an average WNIT final attendance. Without looking I’d guess the average to be closer to 4 or 5k, maybe less. That doesn’t change the argument (which is an interesting one) that the NIVC should be promoted more by P5 coaches. It just bugs me when we aren’t looking at averages.

Anyway, sorry if this is a disruptive tangent. Carry on…..

[n00b]

Apr 5, 2023 0:27:57 GMT -5 kiyoat said:

I just wanted to clarify something: the NIT and the WNIT are not affiliated with each other. The long history of the men’s NIT has zero correlation to the women’s WNIT, a much younger tournament. The WNIT copied the similar name, probably to create an association with the well-known NIT.

I’m not saying that to disparage the WNIT. I think it’s great. Let’s just stick to facts, and leave the NIT out of the discussion.

Speaking of facts, let’s also not compare one of the highest attended WNIT games with a poorly attended NIVC final. 11k is not an average WNIT final attendance. Without looking I’d guess the average to be closer to 4 or 5k, maybe less. That doesn’t change the argument (which is an interesting one) that the NIVC should be promoted more by P5 coaches. It just bugs me when we aren’t looking at averages.

Anyway, sorry if this is a disruptive tangent. Carry on…..

I’m the one who posted the numbers and I totally agree. My broader point is that Women’s basketball seems to be pursuing every possible nook and cranny to promote themselves, grow their audiences and grow their sport in a way that volleyball is not. Sometimes you put in a ton of marketing effort and people still don’t show up. Other times, they do.

This Women’s final four wouldn’t have been nearly as successful if Caitlin Clark wasn’t playing. But their efforts in promoting the sport meant that when that once-in-decade player was there, they were ready to capitalize on it.

[uofaGRAD]

Apr 5, 2023 12:13:03 GMT -5 n00b said:

I’m the one who posted the numbers and I totally agree. My broader point is that Women’s basketball seems to be pursuing every possible nook and cranny to promote themselves, grow their audiences and grow their sport in a way that volleyball is not. Sometimes you put in a ton of marketing effort and people still don’t show up. Other times, they do.

agreed completely.

[kiyoat]

I think that part of the reason is that men's basketball is popular, and they are able to capitalize on that association. The WNBA has traditionally been a poorly attended, poorly funded enterprize, .... but I see ESPN and NBA players pimping the women's league and its players all the time. That has to have given them a boost. Same with the Women's NCAA tourney happening in concert with the extremetly popular men's NCAA tournament. Consumers of sports are "in the mood" for basketball right now in this season. Even casual basketball fans go crazy over it in March.

A similar thing could happen between Olympic Women's VB and NCAA VB. People really get into the olympics. Also there is a big increase in this sport at the youth levels, so I'd assume that at some point the fan base has to grow. I think it is, just very slowly.

The big positive is that the product is good. I've gotten a lot of people into volleyball just by taking them to a game, and explaining what was happening. It's about the same length as basketball (sometimes shorter), and has big stand-up athletic moments. Sorry if this is sexist, but the female athletes are more attractive than in basketball, for the most part, too...

Just saying, ...You have to take every advantage you have. The athletes themselves have always been a draw for fans of sports, back to ancient times.

[kiyoat]

OK, I stand corrected (by myself). Looking at the top-10 attended WNIT postseason games, all are championship games, and the recent Kansas one wouldn't even make the top-10. They range from 18,000 (#1) to 12,200 (#10). The oldest record was from 1999. (Wisconsin at Arkansas). Granted, many P-5 teams still turn their noses up at the WNIT every year. So they and the NIVC both have similar issues, but WBB is just better attended in general.

As a side note, I doubt any of those 12k + attendance finals happen at a neutral site. Gotta be home games.

[jayj79]

Time of year plays a factor too.
volleyball postseason is in December. Team participation-wise, as others have mentioned, that conflicts with final exams.
Fan attendance-wise, people are busy with holiday plans, or they are wrapped up in football bowl games / NFL, plus the weather in many places isn't always conducive to traveling or getting to games.

Where as basketball is in March/April. Doesn't conflict with finals or the holidays. Isn't up against football.
And people who have been sort of cooped up during the winter months may be more prone to get out and travel to games.
Plus the average joe-schmo sports fan tends to be more familiar with basketball than they are with volleyball