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Post by maizecrayons on Mar 26, 2024 6:37:27 GMT -5
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Post by guest2 on Mar 26, 2024 7:03:14 GMT -5
What is going on with the early season challenges on the women's side. These have been very high level events in the past and now the Chinese and Taiana/Victoria are the top two seeds?
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Post by trianglevolleyball on Mar 26, 2024 10:02:56 GMT -5
What is going on with the early season challenges on the women's side. These have been very high level events in the past and now the Chinese and Taiana/Victoria are the top two seeds? Eh, I checked Saquerama last year and it's a comparable field. These Brazil events are during what is still somewhat of an off season for many teams. Overall at challengers though, we're going to see less of the teams that populated the top seeds for various reasons (Chughes, TKN, Barbara/Carol are all virtual locks for Olympics so don't need to play, Scint is injured, Sponcil quit).
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Post by beachcoach on Mar 26, 2024 16:12:35 GMT -5
What is going on with the early season challenges on the women's side. These have been very high level events in the past and now the Chinese and Taiana/Victoria are the top two seeds? I don’t know each individual situation but I guess teams are thinking if they can make main draw/or qualifier for the last elite 16 events? What they don’t want is four bad challenger events and not make the qualifiers when the main draw field of an elite 16 might drop off. Just beat guessing here. The new system and then how to gauge the points/entry has got coaches working differently in their planning.
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Post by beachcoach on Mar 26, 2024 16:13:03 GMT -5
What is going on with the early season challenges on the women's side. These have been very high level events in the past and now the Chinese and Taiana/Victoria are the top two seeds? I don’t know each individual situation but I guess teams are thinking if they can make main draw/or qualifier for the last elite 16 events? What they don’t want is four bad challenger events and not make the qualifiers when the main draw field of an elite 16 might drop off. Just best guessing here. The new system and then how to gauge the points/entry has got coaches working differently in their planning.
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Post by ajm on Mar 26, 2024 16:36:42 GMT -5
What is going on with the early season challenges on the women's side. These have been very high level events in the past and now the Chinese and Taiana/Victoria are the top two seeds? I don’t know each individual situation but I guess teams are thinking if they can make main draw/or qualifier for the last elite 16 events? What they don’t want is four bad challenger events and not make the qualifiers when the main draw field of an elite 16 might drop off. Just beat guessing here. The new system and then how to gauge the points/entry has got coaches working differently in their planning. I think this was kind of the intent of the Elite16/Challenge/Futures system in the first place, where there wouldn't be a lot of overlap between the teams that could play all tiers. But instead, teams just outside of the top five figured out that they can gain a lot of easy points by playing down at the Challenge level. Remember when VBW briefly tried to fix that problem by banning the top six in entry points from entering Challenge events, but then quickly repealed that rule once they realized how volatile entry points were? But now that the Olympic berths are pretty much decided except for the last few spots at the bottom, there's no real benefit for the top teams playing down. I'm guessing that they'll make some adjustments starting next season that will reduce the benefits for Elite 16 teams to also play Challengers. That might not be great for promoters putting on Challenge events, but it will also make it more difficult for the top teams to skip Elite 16s.
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Post by guest2 on Mar 27, 2024 2:47:10 GMT -5
I don’t know each individual situation but I guess teams are thinking if they can make main draw/or qualifier for the last elite 16 events? What they don’t want is four bad challenger events and not make the qualifiers when the main draw field of an elite 16 might drop off. Just beat guessing here. The new system and then how to gauge the points/entry has got coaches working differently in their planning. I think this was kind of the intent of the Elite16/Challenge/Futures system in the first place, where there wouldn't be a lot of overlap between the teams that could play all tiers. But instead, teams just outside of the top five figured out that they can gain a lot of easy points by playing down at the Challenge level. Remember when VBW briefly tried to fix that problem by banning the top six in entry points from entering Challenge events, but then quickly repealed that rule once they realized how volatile entry points were? But now that the Olympic berths are pretty much decided except for the last few spots at the bottom, there's no real benefit for the top teams playing down. I'm guessing that they'll make some adjustments starting next season that will reduce the benefits for Elite 16 teams to also play Challengers. That might not be great for promoters putting on Challenge events, but it will also make it more difficult for the top teams to skip Elite 16s. Why would that be a good outcome? These events are pretty lousy as is, they would only get worse. "Ok you are paying about a million dollars to host, so what we are going to do, is change the system to lower the level of play even more. We want you to really get your moneys worth."
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Post by ajm on Mar 27, 2024 5:21:36 GMT -5
I think this was kind of the intent of the Elite16/Challenge/Futures system in the first place, where there wouldn't be a lot of overlap between the teams that could play all tiers. But instead, teams just outside of the top five figured out that they can gain a lot of easy points by playing down at the Challenge level. Remember when VBW briefly tried to fix that problem by banning the top six in entry points from entering Challenge events, but then quickly repealed that rule once they realized how volatile entry points were? But now that the Olympic berths are pretty much decided except for the last few spots at the bottom, there's no real benefit for the top teams playing down. I'm guessing that they'll make some adjustments starting next season that will reduce the benefits for Elite 16 teams to also play Challengers. That might not be great for promoters putting on Challenge events, but it will also make it more difficult for the top teams to skip Elite 16s. Why would that be a good outcome? These events are pretty lousy as is, they would only get worse. "Ok you are paying about a million dollars to host, so what we are going to do, is change the system to lower the level of play even more. We want you to really get your moneys worth." I think the goal should be to increase participation at the highest level events, i.e. Elite 16s. The current points structure discourages this somewhat. If promoters want higher levels of play, they should be putting on Elite 16s, not Challengers. Prize money should also reflect the points structure, so maybe they can adjust that accordingly also.
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Post by guest2 on Mar 27, 2024 6:14:15 GMT -5
Why would that be a good outcome? These events are pretty lousy as is, they would only get worse. "Ok you are paying about a million dollars to host, so what we are going to do, is change the system to lower the level of play even more. We want you to really get your moneys worth." I think the goal should be to increase participation at the highest level events, i.e. Elite 16s. The current points structure discourages this somewhat. If promoters want higher levels of play, they should be putting on Elite 16s, not Challengers. Prize money should also reflect the points structure, so maybe they can adjust that accordingly also. Its interesting you say that, I assume you mean because a good Challenge finish has more points than a bad Elite? I thought of it the other way, meaning the points imbalance makes it easier for teams to move up
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spideas
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Post by spideas on Mar 27, 2024 9:28:23 GMT -5
Why would that be a good outcome? These events are pretty lousy as is, they would only get worse. "Ok you are paying about a million dollars to host, so what we are going to do, is change the system to lower the level of play even more. We want you to really get your moneys worth." I think the goal should be to increase participation at the highest level events, i.e. Elite 16s. The current points structure discourages this somewhat. If promoters want higher levels of play, they should be putting on Elite 16s, not Challengers. Prize money should also reflect the points structure, so maybe they can adjust that accordingly also. If remember correctly... When they started the current system, Volleyball World just wanted the top 16 based on entry points to play in those events... The players revolted to get the Elite 16 qualifiers put into place.... I agree regarding events and levels of play... When you go to a minor league baseball game, you expect to see minor league players... If you go to a challenger event you are going to see the second tier of professional beach volleyball athletes....
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Post by overonone on Mar 27, 2024 18:28:37 GMT -5
Bansley/Sophie vs Simo/Toni in the qualifier.
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Post by dunninla3 on Mar 27, 2024 19:06:05 GMT -5
for teams chasing Olympic spot #18, or the two country #2 team berths (SUI, GER), E16s are, I argue, irrelevant. Challenge events give the best chance of getting 600 or more points, quite easily if I might add.
G2, you wrote last week that the race for the last 5-6 Olympic spots still up for grabs is boring ... that who cares if a team barely qualifies for Paris only to likely finish at best 9th or below at the Olympics. I would argue that Olympic particiption makes a huge impact on an athlete's life even if they should finish.. last. And that being in the Olympic Village as part of the international community of elite athletes representing their county is a life highlight experience. i don't disagree that the structure of the Beach Volleyball competition at the Olympics is really lame... stretched out over two weeks, some first round matches including teams that would never, ever whiff even a Challenge Main Draw. Still, it is the Olympics, and that resonates with some of us who have thought the Olympics a big deal going back to childhood.
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Post by dunninla3 on Mar 27, 2024 19:08:40 GMT -5
Bansley/Sophie vs Simo/Toni in the qualifier. oh man, the pain Savvy endures to stay a Pro... at some point real life has to tap her on the shoulder, and whisper "what about me?"
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Post by guest2 on Mar 27, 2024 19:22:36 GMT -5
for teams chasing Olympic spot #18, or the two country #2 team berths (SUI, GER), E16s are, I argue, irrelevant. Challenge events give the best chance of getting 600 or more points, quite easily if I might add. G2, you wrote last week that the race for the last 5-6 Olympic spots still up for grabs is boring ... that who cares if a team barely qualifies for Paris only to likely finish at best 9th or below at the Olympics. I would argue that Olympic particiption makes a huge impact on an athlete's life even if they should finish.. last. And that being in the Olympic Village as part of the international community of elite athletes representing their county is a life highlight experience. i don't disagree that the structure of the Beach Volleyball competition at the Olympics is really lame... stretched out over two weeks, some first round matches including teams that would never, ever whiff even a Challenge Main Draw. Still, it is the Olympics, and that resonates with some of us who have thought the Olympics a big deal going back to childhood.
For a nurse in Ghana, moving from emptying bedpans at a government hospital to consulting for an international NGO with all the accompanying benefits is just as life changing. Doesn't mean I want to watch her job interview.
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Post by robvolei on Mar 27, 2024 22:20:02 GMT -5
Watching the Olympic race is fun. It's a storyline to follow along with.
When it comes down to the actual Olympic tournament, I only care about watching the top teams.
The allure and setup of the Olympics makes their beach volleyball medals more prestige than the World Champs. Even the Commonwealth games is big for CW countries.
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