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Post by volleyballjim on Apr 2, 2021 14:29:31 GMT -5
avp.com/players/Was looking at this list -- what determines if a player gets added to this? I would guess, top 16 for a Main Draw, but since that varies (AVP's choice of who SHOULD be top 16)...AND, they don't take "requests"...LOL |
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Post by guest2 on Apr 2, 2021 18:10:20 GMT -5
avp.com/players/Was looking at this list -- what determines if a player gets added to this? I would guess, top 16 for a Main Draw, but since that varies (AVP's choice of who SHOULD be top 16)...AND, they don't take "requests"...LOL Lot more than 16 players there also some odd choices, Summer Ross and Ryan Doherty for example. I like this, particularly the social media links and the appearance of it. |
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Post by Winbabywin on Apr 6, 2021 8:42:13 GMT -5
Coconut Beach Volleyball Complex is advertising an AVPNext Gold event ($20K prize money) For June 2-4th. (my FB volleyball group is a great source for this info Florida beach volleyball players). Gold events have to be 20K regular Next events have to be 10k. Anyone hear of others? 210 Beach San Antonio has AVPNext $15K event in May requiring a $250 registration fee. They should sell that out no problem. I know beach volleyball players are sometimes procrastinators when it comes to registering, but I was curious. I went to see the registration for the 210 event, only 1 Women's team and 2 Men's teams signed up so far. A little over a month out...seems like there would be a few more by now; I wonder if the $250 entry is gonna be an issue. |
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Post by txbvb on Apr 6, 2021 9:23:53 GMT -5
210 Beach San Antonio has AVPNext $15K event in May requiring a $250 registration fee. They should sell that out no problem. I know beach volleyball players are sometimes procrastinators when it comes to registering, but I was curious. I went to see the registration for the 210 event, only 1 Women's team and 2 Men's teams signed up so far. A little over a month out...seems like there would be a few more by now; I wonder if the $250 entry is gonna be an issue. If I were a lower lever/middle of the road open team, I certainly wouldn't sign up early just to see some upper qualifier/lower main draw teams sign up a week before. That's just me, though. I have a hard time paying $60/EA for a tournament, but I am not competing at an open/pro level. |
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Post by hbmb10k on Apr 6, 2021 11:17:54 GMT -5
I know beach volleyball players are sometimes procrastinators when it comes to registering, but I was curious. I went to see the registration for the 210 event, only 1 Women's team and 2 Men's teams signed up so far. A little over a month out...seems like there would be a few more by now; I wonder if the $250 entry is gonna be an issue. If I were a lower lever/middle of the road open team, I certainly wouldn't sign up early just to see some upper qualifier/lower main draw teams sign up a week before. That's just me, though. I have a hard time paying $60/EA for a tournament, but I am not competing at an open/pro level. They tend to fill up in order, so not many signing up until the Opens prior to this in Dallas, Austin, Houston are finished. It's roughly 25% adult women traveling teams. 50% HS commits/prospects. 25% HS age club that are players pretty green. Most all motivated not by the money but the experience of playing someone better. I'm going off on a tangent here, but these volleyball bars in the Baton Rouge and New Orleans metro areas irk the hell out me. They really went in and built multiple nice large facilities. The food is great. Good ambience. This is where their talent lies. Then they turn around and rarely hold juniors tournments, rarely license tournaments ( costs $25? ). Poorly marketed. Hard to find the tournaments to register. They really do the sport and juniors a disservice by being so ignorant of what's going on in other parts of the country. There's 2 million people here, they play volleyball, but can't produce any good junior players. |
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Post by JB Southpaw on Apr 7, 2021 5:39:24 GMT -5
Didn't the Cali Governor just say the state will open up in June?
Hopefully the AVP new this, and has their schedule almost buttoned up.
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Post by bombsaway on Apr 7, 2021 8:52:17 GMT -5
Didn't the Cali Governor just say the state will open up in June? Hopefully the AVP new this, and has their schedule almost buttoned up. Completely agree along with the NFL announcing full capacity in the fall, we should absolutely be getting AVP events which are out doors and only attract fans by the dozens.... not tens of thousands. My hope is that they will find a happy balance between having a big main draw, but also highlighting more of the high level matches. This is coming from someone with zero business experience who just enjoys seeing new faces pop into events as well as seeing the top dogs duke it out on Sundays Shrinking the draw has the disadvantage of making it that much more impossible to cultivate new talent because everyone will play the points game Expanding the draw has the disadvantage of diluting the few recognizable talented teams until Sunday and creates quite a few lopsided first round match-ups I am also fully aware that people have brought up and debated this every year...but it never gets old hearing interesting ideas for the sport that we love |
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Post by guest2 on Apr 7, 2021 9:09:34 GMT -5
Didn't the Cali Governor just say the state will open up in June? Hopefully the AVP new this, and has their schedule almost buttoned up. Completely agree along with the NFL announcing full capacity in the fall, we should absolutely be getting AVP events which are out doors and only attract fans by the dozens.... not tens of thousands. My hope is that they will find a happy balance between having a big main draw, but also highlighting more of the high level matches. This is coming from someone with zero business experience who just enjoys seeing new faces pop into events as well as seeing the top dogs duke it out on Sundays Shrinking the draw has the disadvantage of making it that much more impossible to cultivate new talent because everyone will play the points game Expanding the draw has the disadvantage of diluting the few recognizable talented teams until Sunday and creates quite a few lopsided first round match-ups I am also fully aware that people have brought up and debated this every year...but it never gets old hearing interesting ideas for the sport that we love One thing I think we should learn from other sports is young players need to play and compete. In the NBA for example, high draft picks always play long before they have actually "earned" their minutes with good play. Look at the hot mess that is Wiseman in Golden State for example. I think Donald Sun may benefit by thinking of the players as a single talent roster he wants to keep improving. I love Ed Ratledge, but even if James Shaw is inferior to him at this moment, the better long term play is to have Shaw in the main draw. Other than dopey "he's a player, married to a player" stories, what does the AVP gain by having Billy Kolinske in the MD rather than Andy Benesh (except of course that Kolinske is a better player right now). That would allow the AVP to keep the draw relatively small, but also identify and promote new talent. There should still be an avenue for young or experienced players on the margins to force their way into the field, but limiting that to 2-4 teams possibly |
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Post by JB Southpaw on Apr 7, 2021 9:40:01 GMT -5
Completely agree along with the NFL announcing full capacity in the fall, we should absolutely be getting AVP events which are out doors and only attract fans by the dozens.... not tens of thousands. My hope is that they will find a happy balance between having a big main draw, but also highlighting more of the high level matches. This is coming from someone with zero business experience who just enjoys seeing new faces pop into events as well as seeing the top dogs duke it out on Sundays Shrinking the draw has the disadvantage of making it that much more impossible to cultivate new talent because everyone will play the points game Expanding the draw has the disadvantage of diluting the few recognizable talented teams until Sunday and creates quite a few lopsided first round match-ups I am also fully aware that people have brought up and debated this every year...but it never gets old hearing interesting ideas for the sport that we love One thing I think we should learn from other sports is young players need to play and compete. In the NBA for example, high draft picks always play long before they have actually "earned" their minutes with good play. Look at the hot mess that is Wiseman in Golden State for example. I think Donald Sun may benefit by thinking of the players as a single talent roster he wants to keep improving. I love Ed Ratledge, but even if James Shaw is inferior to him at this moment, the better long term play is to have Shaw in the main draw. Other than dopey "he's a player, married to a player" stories, what does the AVP gain by having Billy Kolinske in the MD rather than Andy Benesh (except of course that Kolinske is a better player right now). That would allow the AVP to keep the draw relatively small, but also identify and promote new talent. There should still be an avenue for young or experienced players on the margins to force their way into the field, but limiting that to 2-4 teams possibly I wonder with the repositioning of AVPNext and AVPNext Gold, could the AVP get rid of the Qualifiers? or greatly reduce them? You now have these fringe MD players traveling the country playing these tournaments, and getting points. Would anyone be a surprise team outside of the AVPAmerica points structure? Could the AVP got to the FIVB pool format to add more teams? Friday Pool play, Sat & Sunday Single elim? |
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Post by guest2 on Apr 7, 2021 10:31:33 GMT -5
One thing I think we should learn from other sports is young players need to play and compete. In the NBA for example, high draft picks always play long before they have actually "earned" their minutes with good play. Look at the hot mess that is Wiseman in Golden State for example. I think Donald Sun may benefit by thinking of the players as a single talent roster he wants to keep improving. I love Ed Ratledge, but even if James Shaw is inferior to him at this moment, the better long term play is to have Shaw in the main draw. Other than dopey "he's a player, married to a player" stories, what does the AVP gain by having Billy Kolinske in the MD rather than Andy Benesh (except of course that Kolinske is a better player right now). That would allow the AVP to keep the draw relatively small, but also identify and promote new talent. There should still be an avenue for young or experienced players on the margins to force their way into the field, but limiting that to 2-4 teams possibly I wonder with the repositioning of AVPNext and AVPNext Gold, could the AVP get rid of the Qualifiers? or greatly reduce them? You now have these fringe MD players traveling the country playing these tournaments, and getting points. Would anyone be a surprise team outside of the AVPAmerica points structure? Could the AVP got to the FIVB pool format to add more teams? Friday Pool play, Sat & Sunday Single elim? I'd worry about a system that requires teams to travel to all these events and spend two days mostly playing on-competitive matches to accumulate points. The AVPNext system has resulted in some pretty outrageous teams getting a ton of points, although that seems to be happening less now. FIVB format is garbage. I'd rather see more courts, faster play, reduced fields, any one of many other formats before we get into a format that promotes strategic losing. (FIVB's current pool play is better than their old version but still stinks). |
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Post by JB Southpaw on Apr 7, 2021 11:20:34 GMT -5
I wonder with the repositioning of AVPNext and AVPNext Gold, could the AVP get rid of the Qualifiers? or greatly reduce them? You now have these fringe MD players traveling the country playing these tournaments, and getting points. Would anyone be a surprise team outside of the AVPAmerica points structure? Could the AVP got to the FIVB pool format to add more teams? Friday Pool play, Sat & Sunday Single elim? I'd worry about a system that requires teams to travel to all these events and spend two days mostly playing on-competitive matches to accumulate points. The AVPNext system has resulted in some pretty outrageous teams getting a ton of points, although that seems to be happening less now. FIVB format is garbage. I'd rather see more courts, faster play, reduced fields, any one of many other formats before we get into a format that promotes strategic losing. (FIVB's current pool play is better than their old version but still stinks). Worry? these teams are traveling and making more $$ than taking 13ths at a AVP event. With designations between AVPNext and America events, the points are finally putting the best teams at the top. I actually like the new FIVB Pool play, if a team pulls an upset they get rewarded, and the higher seed still has a chance. I'd really like to see 20 teams per gender actually make a living playing volleyball domestically. |
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Post by guest2 on Apr 7, 2021 12:15:44 GMT -5
I'd worry about a system that requires teams to travel to all these events and spend two days mostly playing on-competitive matches to accumulate points. The AVPNext system has resulted in some pretty outrageous teams getting a ton of points, although that seems to be happening less now. FIVB format is garbage. I'd rather see more courts, faster play, reduced fields, any one of many other formats before we get into a format that promotes strategic losing. (FIVB's current pool play is better than their old version but still stinks). Worry? these teams are traveling and making more $$ than taking 13ths at a AVP event. With designations between AVPNext and America events, the points are finally putting the best teams at the top. I actually like the new FIVB Pool play, if a team pulls an upset they get rewarded, and the higher seed still has a chance. I'd really like to see 20 teams per gender actually make a living playing volleyball domestically. Do you think FIVB events would be more or less fun if they played straight double elim or continued with pools? I get annoyed with the FIVB pool play for the same reason NBA regular season sucks. Too many games where winning doesn't really matter and losing can be an advantage and too much randomness in the draw. Kolinske/Stockman were 1 swing away from making the semis without playing a team seeded in the top 18. As it is, they made the semis playing no team in the top 14. In straight double elim -with a big field - if you no-show your first round game, it was almost impossible to make it back and win. Now teams do the same and they get an easier second pool game + one round extra of playoffs. The AVPNext question is harder, in part because whatever Q system is used the goal, to get great young talent into AVP events, may be impossible. I'd rather see some sort of Q school type structure that lets aspiring players stay at home in CA or FL, put all their time, effort and money into skills development, and doesn't offer so many opportunities to game the system and offer such a high degree of rewards for showing up. As to money is travelling and playing AVP Next a break even proposition financially for teams that are in contention but maybe win once a year? (Assuming expenses are frugal but not sleep on someone's floor level austere) You'd know that better than I would. |
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Post by JB Southpaw on Apr 7, 2021 12:39:08 GMT -5
Worry? these teams are traveling and making more $$ than taking 13ths at a AVP event. With designations between AVPNext and America events, the points are finally putting the best teams at the top. I actually like the new FIVB Pool play, if a team pulls an upset they get rewarded, and the higher seed still has a chance. I'd really like to see 20 teams per gender actually make a living playing volleyball domestically. Do you think FIVB events would be more or less fun if they played straight double elim or continued with pools? I get annoyed with the FIVB pool play for the same reason NBA regular season sucks. Too many games where winning doesn't really matter and losing can be an advantage and too much randomness in the draw. Kolinske/Stockman were 1 swing away from making the semis without playing a team seeded in the top 18. As it is, they made the semis playing no team in the top 14. In straight double elim -with a big field - if you no-show your first round game, it was almost impossible to make it back and win. Now teams do the same and they get an easier second pool game + one round extra of playoffs. The AVPNext question is harder, in part because whatever Q system is used the goal, to get great young talent into AVP events, may be impossible. I'd rather see some sort of Q school type structure that lets aspiring players stay at home in CA or FL, put all their time, effort and money into skills development, and doesn't offer so many opportunities to game the system and offer such a high degree of rewards for showing up. As to money is travelling and playing AVP Next a break even proposition financially for teams that are in contention but maybe win once a year? (Assuming expenses are frugal but not sleep on someone's floor level austere) You'd know that better than I would. Considering FIVB events begin on Wednesdays, if they went double elim, teams may be out before Friday. some of the matches to get out of pool would be great. I'm not saying 32 team field. I'd like 18 autos, and 4 through a Q and 2 WC. Maybe just a 16 team Q. That would give the top 72ish players a chance to get in. They can use the WCs towards AVPNEXT tournaments? 6-10 AVPNEXT events could keep those lower players afloat. |
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Post by Winbabywin on Apr 7, 2021 14:19:05 GMT -5
It is definitely a tough gig, this beach volleyball thing...as an owner in Sun, and as a player. Someone mentioned they would like to see 20 or so players making a living at beach vball, domestically. Well that depends on what kind of "living" you want. If you're 26 years old, and want to live with 2-3 other players in a cheap apartment...that's one way of living; or you could be 32 years old, married with a kid, in need of a house, minivan, etc.
The AVPNext program kind of serves 2 purposes, maybe conflicting maybe not...to provide a higher level of competition to weed out the pretenders, and to make money for the AVP, in that players will pay to go get killed in a qualifier and buy tickets to the main draw events.
These AVPNext tourneys don't just bring the potential pros though; the majority of players that play in AVPNext tourneys (and perhaps qualifiers too) are players that know they have no chance. Just like Thursday qualifiers, anyone can sign up, as long as you have the entry fee, you're in.
The AVP needs revenue, that's their main problem, but that isn't necessarily going to come from the top 10 players. Just like some of the biggest rec tourneys around the country; 90% of the money they bring in, is from the non-Open levels. Example...Fuds is happening next week, I would imagine there are 300-400 teams?...Just a guess. How many are Open? Probably 20-30, that's including both genders. And everyone pays the same entry fee, like $80 per person or something (for 4's), and some teams have 5-6 on a roster. That's a lot of money!!
If there were some way for the AVP to tap into AVPNext/AVP America...get a percentage of the grass roots to go up the chain, that could give them some guaranteed cash flow every year; it would give them a way to make money off of the "recreational player" all year round, instead of just hoping they spend money at a big AVP event, once a summer.
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Post by JB Southpaw on Apr 7, 2021 14:39:33 GMT -5
It is definitely a tough gig, this beach volleyball thing...as an owner in Sun, and as a player. Someone mentioned they would like to see 20 or so players making a living at beach vball, domestically. Well that depends on what kind of "living" you want. If you're 26 years old, and want to live with 2-3 other players in a cheap apartment...that's one way of living; or you could be 32 years old, married with a kid, in need of a house, minivan, etc. The AVPNext program kind of serves 2 purposes, maybe conflicting maybe not...to provide a higher level of competition to weed out the pretenders, and to make money for the AVP, in that players will pay to go get killed in a qualifier and buy tickets to the main draw events. These AVPNext tourneys don't just bring the potential pros though; the majority of players that play in AVPNext tourneys (and perhaps qualifiers too) are players that know they have no chance. Just like Thursday qualifiers, anyone can sign up, as long as you have the entry fee, you're in. The AVP needs revenue, that's their main problem, but that isn't necessarily going to come from the top 10 players. Just like some of the biggest rec tourneys around the country; 90% of the money they bring in, is from the non-Open levels. Example...Fuds is happening next week, I would imagine there are 300-400 teams?...Just a guess. How many are Open? Probably 20-30, that's including both genders. And everyone pays the same entry fee, like $80 per person or something (for 4's), and some teams have 5-6 on a roster. That's a lot of money!! If there were some way for the AVP to tap into AVPNext/AVP America...get a percentage of the grass roots to go up the chain, that could give them some guaranteed cash flow every year; it would give them a way to make money off of the "recreational player" all year round, instead of just hoping they spend money at a big AVP event, once a summer. Nah, that money from those tourneys is peanuts for what the AVP needs/should be getting. Sponsors is the name of the game for THE AVP. AVPNext/America is about building the brand. They get the JRs involved, that moves them closer to attending events, and spending $$. I went to the Hermosa AVP in 2019, the AVP next was running an event out outer courts, maybe 60 courts. Those kids go through the tournament, buy shirts, balls, meet players become fans. I think that is very smart by them. |
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