bluepenquin
Hall of Fame
4-Time VolleyTalk Poster of the Year (2019, 2018, 2017, 2016), All-VolleyTalk 1st Team (2021, 2020, 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016) All-VolleyTalk 2nd Team 2023
Posts: 13,300 
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Post by bluepenquin on Jul 5, 2023 14:01:48 GMT -5
Wouldn't get lots of serve-receive chances mean you might NOT be a good passer? That's why they're serving you. I didn't compile the list to be the best 6 rotation OH - I compiled a list of the best hitters that play 6 rotations. The basic stats that the general public has (like me) - doesn't tell you anything about whether someone is good at serve receive or backrow defense. Probably the most important aspect of the game - and the available stats for this are either non-existent or stink. As for - a lot of chances means you are a bad passer. That isn't the case at all. A bad passer will get virtually no serve receive chances - as the coaches will not put them in position to receive serve. Usually a team will have just 3 per serve - and when I look at the numbers - it would appear that the chances end up being roughly the same for all 3 spots. There is some variability, but usually not something that is huge. Also - one can get more opportunities because they are assigned more than 1/3 of the receive court. Take Zoe Fleck - arguably the best serve receiver in the country last year (certainly among them). She received 28.3% of the serves for Texas last year. Expectation - no team in their right mind would have tried to serve the ball to her - but she still got to over 28% of the serves. Eggleston and Skinner combined for just 30.1% of the serves. Para got a couple dozen and the rest went to DS's. Raina Terry getting 44% of the serves probably does say something. |
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Post by give me the og-ball-u on Jul 5, 2023 14:03:39 GMT -5
didn't pia timmer have good passing numbers last year? her.
also mabrey shaffmaster
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Post by uofaGRAD on Jul 5, 2023 14:06:32 GMT -5
didn't pia timmer have good passing numbers last year? her. also mabrey shaffmaster Timmer is a great passer! Shaff is also a really good passer but hit under .200 last season I think so… meh |
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Post by uofaGRAD on Jul 5, 2023 14:07:42 GMT -5
Londot will be at outside, no? Oh, I didn’t know that. They show her as opposite on the roster, but that doesn’t mean anything. she played outside in the spring. they lost both their starting outsides… there’s a chance she’s still on the right, but they kinda need her passing now and feel like she hits better on the left than their other options, from what I can assume |
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Post by slxpress on Jul 5, 2023 14:09:55 GMT -5
Oh, I didn’t know that. They show her as opposite on the roster, but that doesn’t mean anything. she played outside in the spring. they lost both their starting outsides… there’s a chance she’s still on the right, but they kinda need her passing now and feel like she hits better on the left than their other options, from what I can assume Yeah, I believe you, for sure. Just out of the loop on that one. |
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bluepenquin
Hall of Fame
4-Time VolleyTalk Poster of the Year (2019, 2018, 2017, 2016), All-VolleyTalk 1st Team (2021, 2020, 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016) All-VolleyTalk 2nd Team 2023
Posts: 13,300
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Post by bluepenquin on Jul 5, 2023 14:10:06 GMT -5
Without watching the players and knowing the receiving stats - how would you interpret this for Stanford last season?
% of the serves received:
Baird - 38.9%
Rubin - 37.3%
Oglivie - 19.3%
To start with - that % for a libero is very low. Stanford doesn't play DS's - so maybe they are at a disadvantage relying so much on their OH to recieve serve?
A lot of people here have said that Rubin is very good handling the ball (which I assume is correct). Yet she got 37.3% of the chances. That is a lot for a very good receiver. Was she asked to cover more than 1/3 of the court? How good is Baird? Maybe teams are just targeting the OH on the front row to negatively impact their hitting?
Just so much unknown stuff here when only being able to look at the basic stats.
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Post by oldnewbie on Jul 5, 2023 14:11:16 GMT -5
A quick look at volleydork who has done a list of the best attacking OH: www.volleydork.com/post/best-outside-hitters-in-ncaa-womens-volleyball-2022And the best passers www.volleydork.com/post/top-passers-in-ncaa-womens-volleyball-2022Nuneviller is 9 as ah attacking OH and 6 as a passer with liberos included in that category. Of course she was a senior last year. The only returning player is Rubin at 18 as a hitter and 23 as a passer. FWIW, I thought Rubin was already a better hitter as a freshman than McClure ever was. Rubin hit 230 (250 in conference) with 3.1k KPS (4.1 in conference) versus McClure who hit 241 with 1.92 KPS in 2019. I also agree that while both hitting and passing can be improved, getting to a truly elite level is mostly about physical gifts that are difficult to really develop as you get older. McClure also had WAY more talent around her. The amount of weapons around McClure was borderline insane. I would say Rubin is more offensively minded than McClure but I don’t think we can use that state to determine it On paper I don't think you are correct. The talent around Rubin right now is insane on paper. Here is their recruiting class rankings: 2 Baird 3 Kipp 4 Miner 5 Francis 10 Vicini 26 Smith 36 Oglvie |
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Post by volleyguy on Jul 5, 2023 14:13:52 GMT -5
Without watching the players and knowing the receiving stats - how would you interpret this for Stanford last season? % of the serves received: Baird - 38.9% Rubin - 37.3% Oglivie - 19.3% To start with - that % for a libero is very low. Stanford doesn't play DS's - so maybe they are at a disadvantage relying so much on their OH to recieve serve? A lot of people here have said that Rubin is very good handling the ball (which I assume is correct). Yet she got 37.3% of the chances. That is a lot for a very good receiver. Was she asked to cover more than 1/3 of the court? How good is Baird? Maybe teams are just targeting the OH on the front row to negatively impact their hitting? Just so much unknown stuff here when only being able to look at the basic stats. There's also perhaps an underlying assumption here (incorrectly) that servers can actually serve to the designated zone. |
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Post by robtearle on Jul 5, 2023 14:16:01 GMT -5
Wouldn't get lots of serve-receive chances mean you might NOT be a good passer? That's why they're serving you. I didn't compile the list to be the best 6 rotation OH - I compiled a list of the best hitters that play 6 rotations. The basic stats that the general public has (like me) - doesn't tell you anything about whether someone is good at serve receive or backrow defense. Probably the most important aspect of the game - and the available stats for this are either non-existent or stink. As for - a lot of chances means you are a bad passer. That isn't the case at all. A bad passer will get virtually no serve receive chances - as the coaches will not put them in position to receive serve. Usually a team will have just 3 per serve - and when I look at the numbers - it would appear that the chances end up being roughly the same for all 3 spots. There is some variability, but usually not something that is huge. Also - one can get more opportunities because they are assigned more than 1/3 of the receive court. Take Zoe Fleck - arguably the best serve receiver in the country last year (certainly among them). She received 28.3% of the serves for Texas last year. Expectation - no team in their right mind would have tried to serve the ball to her - but she still got to over 28% of the serves. Eggleston and Skinner combined for just 30.1% of the serves. Para got a couple dozen and the rest went to DS's. Raina Terry getting 44% of the serves probably does say something. Teams target OHs for two reasons: to disrupt their offense, and because they're the best option (vs serving the libero etc.). And the success at those will also depend on how accurate the server is in hitting the target. I was half-joking, but only halfway so. Lots of receive opportunities would be necessary to make sure the passer rating was statistically meaningful, but we'd need to have the passer rating to go with it to 'complete' the picture. |
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Post by uofaGRAD on Jul 5, 2023 14:20:36 GMT -5
no one in the history of volleyball coaches would take Baird/Vicini/Francis/Miner/Kipp/Oglivie over Plummer/Gates/Campbell/Gray/Fitzmorris/Hentz. silly to compare high school recruiting rankings when we can compare actual college accolades. Kipp is the only player you would take over her counterpart. I could accept an argument for Miner>Gray but probably not in college idk.
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bluepenquin
Hall of Fame
4-Time VolleyTalk Poster of the Year (2019, 2018, 2017, 2016), All-VolleyTalk 1st Team (2021, 2020, 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016) All-VolleyTalk 2nd Team 2023
Posts: 13,300
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Post by bluepenquin on Jul 5, 2023 14:43:54 GMT -5
Without watching the players and knowing the receiving stats - how would you interpret this for Stanford last season? % of the serves received: Baird - 38.9% Rubin - 37.3% Oglivie - 19.3% To start with - that % for a libero is very low. Stanford doesn't play DS's - so maybe they are at a disadvantage relying so much on their OH to recieve serve? A lot of people here have said that Rubin is very good handling the ball (which I assume is correct). Yet she got 37.3% of the chances. That is a lot for a very good receiver. Was she asked to cover more than 1/3 of the court? How good is Baird? Maybe teams are just targeting the OH on the front row to negatively impact their hitting? Just so much unknown stuff here when only being able to look at the basic stats. There's also perhaps an underlying assumption here (incorrectly) that servers can actually serve to the designated zone. I don't know that I am making assumptions here - I am suggesting that it is hard/impossible to assume anything from the % of serves received stat - other than who was put in position to serve receive and who wasn't. if servers had no control - then we should see something like 33.3%, 33.3%, 33.3%. But this would assume that all 3 had the exact same responsibility (% of the court to cover). I am wondering why the discrepancy here with Stanford. People who watch them play could probably shed some light. |
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Post by avid 2.0 on Jul 5, 2023 14:45:40 GMT -5
no one in the history of volleyball coaches would take Baird/Vicini/Francis/Miner/Kipp/Oglivie over Plummer/Gates/Campbell/Gray/Fitzmorris/Hentz. silly to compare high school recruiting rankings when we can compare actual college accolades. Kipp is the only player you would take over her counterpart. I could accept an argument for Miner>Gray but probably not in college idk. Freshman and Sophomore Kami is better than F/S Jenna (if thats what you mean) |
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Post by uofaGRAD on Jul 5, 2023 15:04:25 GMT -5
no one in the history of volleyball coaches would take Baird/Vicini/Francis/Miner/Kipp/Oglivie over Plummer/Gates/Campbell/Gray/Fitzmorris/Hentz. silly to compare high school recruiting rankings when we can compare actual college accolades. Kipp is the only player you would take over her counterpart. I could accept an argument for Miner>Gray but probably not in college idk. Freshman and Sophomore Kami is better than F/S Jenna (if thats what you mean) i like miner better for sure but she did have the tendency to play kipp ball to a fault this past season... i guess gray probably did the same to plummer some LOL |
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Post by acea on Jul 5, 2023 15:27:40 GMT -5
McClure also had WAY more talent around her. The amount of weapons around McClure was borderline insane. I would say Rubin is more offensively minded than McClure but I don’t think we can use that state to determine it On paper I don't think you are correct. The talent around Rubin right now is insane on paper. Here is their recruiting class rankings: 2 Baird 3 Kipp 4 Miner 5 Francis 10 Vicini 26 Smith 36 Oglvie That trio of middles is significantly worse offensively and defensively than any combination of Alade/Fitzmorris/Gates/Campbell (all the middles mcclure played with). |
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Post by oldnewbie on Jul 5, 2023 16:28:16 GMT -5
On paper I don't think you are correct. The talent around Rubin right now is insane on paper. Here is their recruiting class rankings: 2 Baird 3 Kipp 4 Miner 5 Francis 10 Vicini 26 Smith 36 Oglvie That trio of middles is significantly worse offensively and defensively than any combination of Alade/Fitzmorris/Gates/Campbell (all the middles mcclure played with). First, I didn't argue that they were, and second, oh really? First of all, Alade and Gates didn't play at the same time, so they aren't additive. In 2019 Campbell had 1.44k/s, hit .290 with 1.28 b./s Fitz had 2.87 k/s, hit .339 with 0.99 b/s Gates had 2.23 k/s, hit .339 with 1.4 b/s Last year: Vicini had 1.53 k/s, hit .427 with 1.32 b/s Francis had 1.98 k/s, hit .375 with 1.46 b/s One of those three in 2019 played Opp, so you are probably talking about Gates and Campbell at MB, then comparing Fitz to Kipp at Opp. I'm not arguing I would take them, but can you really say that Vicini and Francis were "significantly worse offensively and defensively"? Based on the numbers, absolutely not. |
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